Hello, everybody.

Welcome.

Welcome to our podcast tonight.

Hey, Valerie.

Hi.

We are back at our second home, Potomac Station Coffee House in Dormont.

It's like we never left.

Sure does feel like that, doesnt it?

I know, right?

We have a great show coming your way.

But first, I'm Valerie, that's David, and this is the Gen X Pittsburgh podcast.

Tonights guest is Pittsburg city controller Rachel Heisler.

Big deal right?

Yeah, I know, I know, right.

I think we're the only podcast that has had Bill Peduto Rich Fitzgerald, and now Rachel.

I know this is a big deal.

It is a big deal.

And she's so cute, look at her, oh my god.

I know.

I know and she's like, she's a woman, And she's young and she's got this powerful.

I'm gonna let you say all those things I don't, I dont ever want to to lead into a interview saying she's so cute.

No, that's not.

But she's a very powerful woman.

And I can't wait to get to know her a little better.

That is.

Right.

Yeah.

One of the most important people seriously, in the city government, in my opinion.

Yeah, right.

I mean, she's responsible for a lot of the positive changes that I think anyways, in the city.

I can't wait to find out more.

Yeah.

And, you know, I wanted to before we get into the interview, I wanted to bring out to everybody listening that we now have a Patreon page.

That's how you say that, right, Patrick?

We think that's right.

So yeah.

If it's not Patreon, you ca tell us that were wrong, right?

Shoot us a quick email.

We we have a Patreon page and you can go to that and support the podcast.

You can buy us a cup of coffee, you can buy us an espresso, or you can buy us an espresso and cheesecake.

Yeah, and those are all different, levels of sponsorship.

You know, it's a monthly fee.

It's it's very, very small.

It's something you wouldn't even miss if you were to do it right and become like a, what do they call those, on, on NPR and, you know, the, the people who come in, but the people who do it every month on Q.E.D., they're, they're called some kind of member.

Oh, yeah, I know, I was just looking into that too.

Well just become that kind of member.

Right.

Just just be here for us.

Sustaining.

That's it.

Sustaining membership.

That's right.

Right.

That's right.

So become a sustaining member.

Help us help you.

Because really, this is for you, right?

I mean, you, this is engaging, exciting programing.

They can't get anywhere else, right?

Right here in Dormont.

Right?

Right.

I mean, it's the best podcast from Pittsburgh.

Okay I think so, yeah.

No, definitely, it definitely is.

I think we're in like the top five.

No, we're in the top okay.

We're the top podcast in Pittsburgh.

We have the top guests.

We do have that for sure.

Right.

That's right.

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Right.

If not, just throw money at Valerie, when you see he walking the streets.

Oh, okay.

All right, on that note, yeah, we're going to take a little.

Our cameraman is throwing money at me.

All right, here we go.

On that note, we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back with Rachel Heisler.

What is the Gen X Pittsburgh cast?

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Remember when coffee was king and pizza bagels ruled on the corner of 14th and Carson at the beehive?

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Yeah, we miss those days, too.

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Joining David Rullo and I, Christofel, as we sit down with the movers and shakers, the artists and the voices who helped shape Pittsburgh back in the early 90s.

Subscrib to the Gen X Pittsburgh podcast.

We are back in at GXP with Rachel Heisler, Pittsburgh City Controller.

Thank you for being here with us.

Thank you Valerie.

Thanks, David.

I'm so excited to have you here.

Rachel.

Thank you.

I'm thrilled to be her and be able to join you tonight.

It's nice to, you know I know Rachel in my other life.

And it's nice to be able to talk to Rachel about fun things.

Right?

About things.

I mean, we'll talk about serious things, but about things that aren't quite so heavy.

Yeah, I, I'm an open book, so I'm happy to talk about anything.

But yeah, this is a really fun environment.

And thanks everybody for joining us in person too.

Yeah.

Thank you for being here.

We start off with a question we ask everybody.

Tell us about your childhood, how you grew up, where you grew up, what you did as a kid.

I have, I grew up in central Pennsylvania.

I talk a lot about how I'm a Pittsburgher or by choice, not by birth.

My mom actually grew up in western Pennsylvania, and I moved to Pittsburgh to come to colleg so I could live near my grandma.

But I grew up in central Pennsylvania.

I went to Kimberlin Valley High School.

I have two awesome parents.

My mom was a teacher at my high school, which I don't recommend.

And she taught psychology.

I did not have her in class, but I saw her every day.

And she.

When I couldn't drive, I had broken legs and arms at various points in high school.

But she was my ride, which I also don't recommend.

But my mom taught at my high school.

My dad was in sales for a company called Kennametal, which, ironically, is headquartered now in downtown Pittsburgh.

I have a younger brother, Andrew, who also followed me to western Pennsylvania to go to college.

He went to W and J. And then he served for 13 year in the United States Navy.

But.

Wow.

I grew up in a really nic kind of average, normal family.

I have wonderful parents, as I've mentioned.

I always had a parent at one of my sporting events.

I played soccer pretty competitively for 12 years growing up.

And, you know, I kind of did everything growing up.

I was on th I was an editor of my yearbook, I played soccer, I was the boys basketball manager.

I ran a mentorship program between middle school kids and high school kids.

Amazing.

And I always my favorite teacher in high school, my Spanish teacher.

I went to college to be a Spanish teacher.

My favorite teacher went to Pitt, and I came home in ninth grade.

I'll never forget it.

And I, I, you know, I remember yelling at my parents, I can go to, you know because everybody where I went, rather everyone where I grew up went to Penn State.

Sure.

Just the trajectory.

Right.

It was 90 minutes away.

I grew up next door to a Penn State football player and that wa just sort of what was expected.

And I came home in ninth grade and said, Senora Walker went to Pitt.

I can go to Pitt and live near grandma.

So Pitt was the only place I ever wanted to go.

Yeah, I have, I do.

I had, my grandmother passed away six years ago but she was a wonderful woman.

And, my cousins are still here.

My aunt, my great aunt Shirley, who I will send her the link to this, and she will probably share it on her Facebook page.

She turned 91 two weeks ago.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

So I'm very, very close with my family.

But yeah, I have like an awesome upbringing.

You know, I like, played soccer I don't know, 12 nights a week.

And, just, I was a really athletic kid and liked school and loved to read and, you know, pretty, pretty average, but pretty happy and, you know, stable.

And I had I have, like, the most wonderful parents who tolerated me still to this day, I'm 42.

I'm not Gen X, I'm a millennial, but I'm 42.

I was going to bring that up.

Shes not a gen xer.

Are you a Xennial or are you like a millenial?

Xennial is the one who remembers pre-internet and after?

Yeah.

That's me.

So I remember it's funny.

It's, not trending.

It's circulating on Instagram right now.

Like having a computer room.

Right.

Remember everybody having a computer room?

My family had a computer room.

Yeah.

And we got internet.

I'll never forget it in fourth grade.

And we had a. What's the brand?

The computer with the cow?

Gateway.

Yeah, we had a Gateway computer, and it was, like, the size of a refrigerator.

And, you know, you'd hear it.

And, you know, we had AOL.

But I remember the pre-Internet days, I had a cell phone the last two years I was in high school, but not I mean there was no texting.

There was.

It's just it's all so amazing how we communicate now.

And I think what's really interesting about the workplace and not to pivot so quickly, but, you know like you have people right now who only want to write letters, right.

Only want to do something on email, only want to do something on the phone talking to somebody and only want a text.

And you're like, it's it' just.

It's too much sometimes.

Yeah.

I went to, an internship program for, college kids who are in media.

And so each kid is coming up and talking about their, their experience.

And they asked them, what was the hardest thing about your internship?

These are all people that wanted to be reporters.

And they all said, I had no idea I would actually have to call people, right?

Like they just and I don't blame them.

I mean, you know, this is the world we live in.

Yeah, but the idea of actually having to call somebody anymore is so foreign to so many people.

If a reporter calls you enough, you eventually call them back and that you had learned.

But the it is true.

I mean, the the idea that you wouldn't communicate verbally with someone is.

Right.

That's why we have AI, right?

Right, right.

So, so you were while you were at Pitt.

Did you play any sports there?

I didn't.

Okay.

I was president of College Democrats when I was at Pitt, which was at that time the largest student organization on campus.

But I was I graduated in 12th grade and haven't really touched a soccer ball since, unfortunately.

But I still run and exercise.

But, yeah, I did not play.

I went to Pitt.

I went to be a Spanish teacher 2004 got involved in the Kerry for President campaign, then interned for Senator Casey for two years before he was Senator Casey, he was then state treasurer Casey.

I was with him for two years.

Graduated from college and then right out of school, got a job with a member of Congress and have sort of been on this very unusual path ever since.

So what made you interested in the city controller position?

Well, wait, before we do that, explain what your job is.

Sure.

So in case people don't know what what you do, actually.

A lot of people don't know.

I won't ask anybody on this panel what I do all day.

I can tell you and Ill bet you Stacy can tell you.

So the controller in Pittsburgh is the third branch of government, right So the mayor is the executive, the legislative branch of City council, and the controllers office is the check and balance on the rest of city government.

So we do that through three core things, right?

We pay the city's bills where accounts payable, were the city's.

We manage the city's books where the accounting function.

And then we audit city spending for economy efficiency and scale.

So the things that make the news are the account, the rather the things that make the news are the audits and the reports that we do on, you know, how the city is running.

But the bulk of the work we actually do is pretty nuts and bolts, right?

We pay the city's bills and manage the city's books.

And, you know we have about I think right now we have 55 employees across all three sections.

And, you know their job is to make sure city taxpayers get what they pay for, and whether that's through evaluating a bill that comes in before it's paid and checking to make sure that the roads were paved per specifications in a contract, or whether it's reconciling the, you know, the general fund at the end of every month or it's the audits, right.

The, you know, th we just did a postage of the day with Councilman Charlotte about city code violations.

And that is that is what we d is we make sure city residents get what they pay for.

Right.

And I want to talk about this, but before we get into how you got into city government and things like that, I want to say that I think you're the most active city controller, or your offic has been very active in really making sure that city residents do get what they paid for.

There's I can tell you almost every week I get an email about some repor that you've done about something that you're talking about, and it's usually right before, it's interesting, at least in my opinion, it's right before the crest of a wave.

Right?

Like you, I don't know how you are so prescient or your office is, but, before Zappala was talking about the pension fund, you were talking abou the pension fund right before, we had the issues with the, all the different vehicles in the city.

You were talking about those, right?

You are always looking at these systems and services that are supposed to supply city residents and services.

And it seems like you're always saying, look, we need to take care of this to fix this now.

Yeah, it's I mean, one thank you.

That's actually a big compliment.

I think that city resident need to know we're here, right?

And we're doing this work and they understand the function that we we play in the whole process.

Right?

And I think for the preceding, you know, 20 years, we'd either been an act 47 or city finances were pretty strong.

Right.

We left act 47 under Mayor Peduto in 2018 and things were looking up.

Right, right.

And then you have a global pandemic.

And the situation we're in as a city is, ironically, not unique, right.

What separates us this moment from 1970 or rather 1980 is in 1980, it was really only these Rust Belt cities that were really impacted.

Right now, every municipality in the United States, for the most part, is dealin with this post-Covid hangover, and I wish there was a better way to describe it.

But for me, that's like just the most appropriate is you had all this money come in, you had to spend it.

Most municipalities, including the city of Pittsburgh spent it on general operating.

And think about it in your own home.

If you come into an inheritance of for round numbers, say, $100,000, and in four year you go on really nice vacations.

You, you know, do you renovate your bathroom that maybe needed it, maybe didn't.

And at the end of those four years, you still need a new roof.

Your vehicle is still falling apart.

But you did go on really nice vacations.

And that's sort of what we did.

And again no one person has total blame.

The plan was introduced two administrations ago.

It was approved by city council.

It was you know, they doubled down on the in the last administration.

And here we ar cleaning up the hangover.

Right.

Right, right.

Well, I really want to talk about Pittsburgh from the sort of post-industrial side.

But first I really am interested.

Tell us about how did you get into city government because you went from working for a congressperson.

You said.

Yeah, to, to deciding yo wanted to be in city government.

How did that happen?

So in I graduated from Pitt in 2007 and out of college, I got a job with Congressman Altmire.

He's a Blue Dog Democrat from the North Hills, this was a R plus 12 district.

He won in the 2006 wave.

So I started working for him in 2007.

And that job took me to D.C.. So in 2011, it was something I always wanted to do, and I'm really glad I had the chance to do it.

But in 2011, I moved to Washington, for my job with Congressman Altmire.

And that job, he, we lost a primary in 2012.

So we closed down the office, and I left the hill in January of 2013.

And I don't know if folks remember, and I will remind you now, but at the conclusion of 2012 into 2013 was the first time in the modern era that Republicans tried to shut down the federal government.

And this was after the National Commission o Fiscal Responsibility and Reform the Simpson-Bowles Commission.

And everybody was talking about the national debt.

It was like the issue, an I didn't know anything about it.

So like any normal person, I left the hill, didn't know anything about the national debt.

And I applied for a job at The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

And I started working there in 2013, and I stayed for seven years.

And in 2017, my boss, Maya McGinniss, who a lot of people have probably seen on CNN and MSNBC.

But Maya, I told her, I said, I'll resign, but I'm ready to leave Washington.

Can I work remotely?

And this is again pre-pandemic.

So I was sort of a pioneer i teleworking and so pre-pandemic.

And she said, yes, we were we, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which was the first round of Trump tax cuts, was not fiscally responsible.

So we actively activated our network to oppose that.

We failed.

And but after that, I was able to move back, to move home to Pittsburgh.

So I moved back in 2018, early 2018 and worked remotely for two and a half years.

And that or close to three years, I guess.

And then the deputy controlle position was open and the home.

So the city was in a hiring freeze in 2020, right?

The pandemic, no one's hiring.

But the deputy controller position is actually written in the Home Rule charter.

So they were able to hire for that position.

And I interviewed wit then controller, Michael Lamb, my predecessor, and I started as deputy city, deputy cit controller in January of 2021, and getting to know a staff of about 60 at that point, remotely is very challengin for anybody who's ever done it.

But I loved the office.

I loved the work.

I loved the people.

My first year in the office, we saw retirements later in the year, but my first year in the office of how 50, 60 people.

There was a thousand years of service.

Wow.

We had two people that hit their 50th year in 2022.

We'v had other, you know, we probably had another five people with 45 years plus of experience.

So you're just learning.

And, you know, my my colleagues at the tim had just seen so many changes.

I mean, 40 years in municipal government.

I mean, you started before there were right typewriters.

Right?

But there was no internet.

There was no.

And like their brains were, I just I was like, I, I, I told my colleague Mary Ann Bond.

I said, I want to download you.

But it was just so interesting.

And I loved the work.

Right.

Yeah.

And in 2022, my boss, then controller Michael Lamb, informed me that he was going to run for county executive, and that was a that was, you know, I'm like okay, well, what happens to me?

Yeah, right.

Your boss leaves and like, what am I going to do?

And it occurred to me that the only way to actually keep my job was to run for office.

Sure.

So this was like, not you know, I admire people that can plot their careers in a way where you're like this is where I'm going to be.

This is like literally in a million years, the last thing I thought I would do it.

But I love my job.

I love this office.

I believe very like on a very basic level, that I have a responsibility to give people confidence in government.

Right.

You should kno where your money's going, right?

You should know that if your trash isn't picked up, you're not crazy.

There's a problem with the system.

Very likely, David, the vehicl broke down and is in the shop, and we're going to get somebody out to you.

And when it happens on a recurring basis, we're going to figure out what's going on, right?

Yeah.

So that is what I think the controllers offic can provide to city residents, because if you don't have confidence in your local government, you're not going to have confidence in county, state, federal government.

You know what I mean?

So if people have that understanding of where their money is going, I just to me there's I would argue there's like nothing as important.

Right.

So aren't you the first woman to hold this office?

I am.

And aren't you the youngest person to hold this office?

To my awareness, yes.

And I think that you are the most powerful.

This might be perception, right?

But the most powerful woman in the city.

I mean, in terms of government structure, I mean, take it.

I what I would say is there are a lot of really incredible women.

Yeah, who make things run right on time.

I was sitting at the council table today doing the post agenda on the city code violation, city code violation audit.

And I was sitting across from five female members of city council, which is great.

Right.

And you know, the things that, like elect women and women get stuff done.

No offense, but women get stuff done.

And when we are have a seat at the table, you know, we have the ability to make changes that impact women, which ultimately impact families.

I mean, women are just disproportionately removed from the workforc when they have young children.

Women are impacted by, you know, gender discrimination daily.

I just it has been and it's funny, I didn't grow up in a household where it was like, you're a girl, you can do anything.

Like my parents just treated me and my brother the same.

Andrew played football, I played soccer.

But I do think like I was never I was raised, never being told no.

Sure.

And, you know, if I had wanted to play football, my parents, I'm.

I'm very clumsy.

Like in high school, I broke two legs and my arm.

It probably wouldn't have ended well for me like from a physical standpoint, but, like, they would have figured out how to make it happen.

And I was just.

And my mom worked.

My grandmother worked.

You know, I, I, I just was raised in a household where, yeah, you know, you do what you want and you do what you set your mind to.

I was thinking about when you were talking about some of the people who've been in the city for 50 years or, you know, in the controllers office.

It dawned on me that.

And I don't even know how many people realize this anymore because it's so different.

And this will be sort of th start of us looking backwards.

But there used to be a, a political system here, right where it was all the same names, you know, Flaherty's and and, and and so Pittsburgh really had this, this system where you knew everybody, you knew the families, right?

I mean and it's not like that anymore.

I know the Corey's the son of.

But but but he had to work for his position.

It wasn't like this.

The old democratic system.

Right?

I mean, so it's just interesting to m that Pittsburgh is now a place where it's the best and the brightest, hopefully, that are getting these positions rather than patronage.

I would be interested to know, like I'm thinkin of the people on city council, how many peopl actually grew up in Pittsburgh?

And there are a lot.

It's someone I actually just had this conversation with, with someone yesterday where, like, I'm a Heisler.

Yeah, right.

And I don't know what that means.

Like, I'm proud of my I'm very proud of my family.

I'm proud of my family name.

My mom's last maiden name is Dykstra.

So if you're from Washington, PA PA and played football in the 70s and 80s and 80s, you probably knew my grandfather, but I. I'm a Heisler and I don't have the I don' have the like it's not baggage.

I actually think like those families are.

It's commendable that they so many people have devoted their life lives rather to public service.

You know, my mom's a teacher.

My dad was in sales.

Like, I didn't have that when I ran, and I just, like, I went into the Labor Council meeting for the endorsement in 2013.

And Kenny Broadbent, who I will send him a copy of this interview if he doesn't watch it.

Or isnt on live.

But Kenny Broadbent, who's the business manager for the Steam Fitters 449, said to me, he goes, just tell them you're going to work harder than everybody else.

And it occurred to me that A, I was in the process of doing that and then B, yeah, I was going to work harder than everybody else.

And I remember when I because I had forgotten, I went through my whole speech and I got up and then I sat back down and said, wait, I want to say one thing.

And I said, I promised you, if I am your nominee, I will work harder than anybody else.

And I, that's sort of what I brought to the table, is just my work ethic.

But yeah, it's it's really interesting.

And a lot of the women in particular are no from these political families.

Like.

And you're seeing it here in the South Hills, you're seeing it all over western Pennsylvania is women are running for office, and they're working really hard because they care about their neighbors and their families.

And, you know they're being elected on that.

And I think that is just really cool.

Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Can we get into Pittsburgh?

I would love to.

Okay.

First question.

What are we doing right?

And what are we doing wrong.

What can we do better.

So with the city, I can, I se things through a financial lens.

Right?

Just because of my jo and with the city, we have spent the last four and a half years spending like, you know, the city was going gangbusters in terms of tax revenue.

Our population is stable.

It's a huge win.

Our pension fund at the city is healthy.

Countys is a different story.

Like we have so many things going for us, but we should have been doing is looking for places to conserve and save and be smart and strategic.

And instead we just masked the spending problem we were able to ignor for four years inflation, right?

We were able to ignore for four years the slow of the economy, right?

And hiring is slower than it was.

You know, six years ago we were able to ignore key issues that otherwise would have driven financial decisions.

Right?

We ignored, you know, fuel right now is $6 a gallon, diesel $6, $6.50 a gallon.

And, you know, our fire trucks run on diesel.

Yeah.

And how do you, weve ignored these, these looming issues.

And, you know, partys out, party's over, right?

I feel like the parent showing up at the party where the teenagers were drinking, but like.

But but but you just raised a really good point.

How does the city make up?

Because I'm sure when the budgets, you know, and I know there's all kind of issues with the city budget and things like that, but when you're budgeting, you're not thinking tha in a year diesel is going to be $6 a gallon, you know, $2 more or $3 more than it is.

So how does the city, which is already so tight, make up for that?

Yeah, we have very little room for error with where we are financially right now.

The big issue, the biggest actually, issue with the budget that was, has been, so the new administration reopened the budget and repassed a new, new budget.

But the prior budgets ignored costs that we knew we were going to have.

So pretend again, just to go back to the household, because that's what people understand.

Like if you have a monthly budget and you don't budget for your water, electric and gas bill, you still have to pay your water, electric and gas bill.

It's just not in your budget.

And that is quite literally what the city did is we did not budget for increases in water.

We know that we pay for water.

The city pays for our own water when we use it.

We kne that Pittsburgh Water was going to the Pennsylvania Utility Commission to raise rates.

Right.

Like and people can disagree with that, agree with it, whatever.

But that's that' the fact of the matter, right?

We knew they were going to increase water rates.

PUC, the Pittsburgh utility o Pennsylvania Utility Commission rather, approved it.

And we kept that flat.

Right.

And you're like, and in some instances we had it less than it had been the prior year.

Yeah.

So if you had $10 million water bill in 2025 is your, you know, water rates are going up, you're not going to use less water mean.

Yes.

We would all love to say, well we're going to use less water.

But I mean yeah, we're like you're you're not unless you do something operationally that change water usage.

Your water bill is going to go up.

Yeah.

And to budget $8.5 million when the water bill the year before was 10.

Yeah.

Right.

Like so that's sort of when you build a budget that has no room for error.

Yeah.

You know gas prices for sure.

But inflation has been rising for six years.

Right.

Like we got through 2020 and then it went upward.

And there are some instance where, you know, rates help us.

We rely on investment income.

And I have been saying for three years we can't rely on investment income.

Well, rates continue to go up.

So we actually can rely on investment income.

But on the opposite side of that.

How does it impact home sales?

Because we tax home sales.

So of interest rates are high means you know chances are that home sales are going to slow a little bit.

Right.

So what you need to do is build a budget that has room for error.

And right now the situatio we're operating in there's none.

Right.

But I want to be clear, at least in my opinion, because I know people are watching this right now and saying, well, you're going to blame, you're blaming the previous mayor.

But it's not just the mayor.

It was city councilors, everybod that had a hand in this budget that chose to act lik these things weren't happening.

Yeah.

And it you know, I it's funny, like I was sworn in in January of 2024 and the first thing I did was like, hey, we don't have any money.

And so you, you know, you do have to, to, you know, for me, I just trusted my gut.

And this is policy work that I knew.

This is not the traditional role of the controller, right?

You mentioned it earlier, David.

This is something for me that I saw a problem with, and because of my background, you know, we don't certify, certify expenditures.

We certify revenue.

Our revenue expenditures are on a five year window.

And, candidly, our revenue projections have been pretty accurate.

Yeah.

It's just things cost more.

Right.

And that's what we haven't budgeted for.

And that's I believe city council needs to get more engaged, needs to listen to their budget director.

There's there are two staff members for nine people.

Right.

That do these projections and actually the previous budget director, council budget director rather work in the controllers office now.

He's the deputy city controller.

And, you know, they're very nuanced, very complicated problems.

And the longer you ignore them, the more painful they are to fix.

And that's the really big bummer about, you know, not having acted in 2024 about the trajectory of city finances and waiting until, you know, April of this year i you're like, okay, well, right.

We have fewer options.

You know, the longer you wait, the fewer fewer options you have.

So talk to me about that because, you know, from the 80s on, it's like if you're a citizen you get whiplash, I think, because the 80s happened and everyone's talking about Pittsburgh is going to collapse.

Right.

And it doesn't collapse but it's not doing great.

Right.

And then the 90s come and and things get masked and it seems like it goes like this and like this.

Right.

And then all of a sudden, you know, Act 47 happens.

Right.

And, and then one day everybody wakes up and goes, oh no, no, we're good now.

Right?

And it turns out maybe we weren't so good.

Maybe we've been masking problems.

How how were citizens supposed to think about the city right now?

So again, just to remind you, I was born in 1984.

I know.

So I cant speak to, other than reading.

Right.

The history books, there aren't a lot of actual memories I have of Pittsburgh in the 80 besides the Good Ship lollipop.

But yeah, so think about it.

We had a city buil for like seven, 750,000 people.

City, not even the county, the city And, you know, steel steel died.

I don't know if there's a nice way to say it.

Right.

And our population has been in that 45 to 50 year period been cut in half.

Yeah.

What, you know, what Act 47 did was turn financial decisions over to state officials.

So if there was a collective bargaining agreement city participated but the state regulator had to sign off on it.

They made us do things.

They made us close our city garage, and now it's Transdev.

They made us close the city asphalt plant.

And now that's we get asphal from a few different companies, but they made us do things.

That's good, because there's no political implication for the people in office.

Right?

You're like, okay, well they told us we need to do this, but it's also bad because it's basically taking an ax to, an ax.

Yeah.

An ax to, you know, city things, cit spending, city priorities, city, you know, city government that people were used to us controlling.

You know, there are probably longer you know, if you look, if we did a cost benefit analysis of each of those big things, like the asphalt plant, like the city garage, you know, I would guess right no that it's sort of up in the air whether or not in the long run, we saved money.

Right?

The fleet, we spend $1 millio a month on maintenance of our, you know, 1400 units.

Yeah.

Is that a savings?

Is it good?

Is it bad?

I don't know, we've not done the cost benefit analysis, but that's what Act 47 did.

Is it said to state regulators here you make these hard decisions.

You know, in an ideal world, the city would have continued that mindset and said, you know okay, this is a good decision, this is a bad decision.

We just have to say no.

That's a lot of what my my job I feel like has become is I'm like, I'll say no, I'll say we shouldn't do this anymore because it's not prudent, right?

Like there is an expectation that the people were electing are going to make the best decisions on our behalf.

And, you know, their errors, like the state, I would argue that there wa a state state regulator error.

We've been collecting th facility usage fee since 2007.

It was allowed under Act 47, which I would argue deemed it permissible.

It was just overturned by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court last year.

So that's $7 million a yea that we don't have to rely on.

We're still evaluating our exposure in terms of refunds.

But, you know, there I would argue that that was a bad decision that the regulators made.

So, you know, Act 47 is not an ideal situation for a lot of reasons, but it does remove the politics from decision making.

So, you know, I do think in 2018, with every indicator that we had, it was the right decision, right?

The city had, you know, come out of a very dark period financially.

Population, Ill remin everybody, was, is, is still was then and continues to be stable right around 302,000 people.

Allegheny Count grew in the last census in 2020.

And so those are all positive things.

Right.

And what we need to do is make hard decisions.

And in the next few years, as I've mentioned, there's just not a lot of room for error.

There's not a lot of room for error.

And to commend the O'Connor administration, alleviating the financial burden of fleet acquisition particularly in the next.

Right.

You know, three years this year included is a huge, huge strain off the back of city.

And you're talking about the money that we're going to be getting from UPM and some other not-for-profits.

UPMC, Allegheny Health Network, and I think Duquesne and I know Pitt, I'm not, or CMU and Pitt.

I'm not sure that Duquesne has has offered that yet.

But yeah, they're voluntary payments.

They're making payments to a dedicated revenue fund that will go towards the direct operation of fleet, direct, rather go towards a direct acquisition of fleet and other key priorities the administration has released so that the cost of city government falls overwhelmingly heavy on the shoulders of people who live in the city.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

50% of all city revenue comes from, real estate taxes and wage taxes.

That's expensive.

As long as I've been an adult in the city, I've been hearing people say, we need to figure out how to get the not-for-profits to do something.

And there may have been some small cases in the past, I don't know, bu this is the first substantial, deal that I remember.

So when the city went into Act 47, a special consortium of nonprofits came together, piled, you know, together money in 2007, 8 and 9.

We brought in, I think, $7, $9 and $11 million year over year.

So that is like dwarfed by what they've been able to bring in over the next five years and these pledges and commitments.

And, I would argue right now keeping us on a, in a place where we, we don't have to even veer towards Act 47 is very wise.

We all do well when we all do well.

Sure.

Yeah.

Right?

Like, on a very basic sense.

Right.

And are doctors want to going to want to come to Pittsburgh and work for Allegheny Health Network and UPMC if every third time a ambulance is dispatched, it breaks down?

Right.

Yeah.

No, they're not or or trash, you know, trash collection environmental services is delayed often.

You know, if you're a physician and you can go anywhere in the world, are you going to want to come to Pittsburgh?

No.

So, you know, quite candidly, they these big nonprofits have a vested interest in us being able to deliver those core city services.

And, you know, I think that that's what you're seeing right now is an acknowledgment of that, and a pivot towards partnership rather than the friction that I think has existed off and on for the last 20, 25 years.

Right.

I have one question before we take a break.

What is one thing that Pittsburghers should be paying attention to right now?

I would love to say the fleet.

No, I think, well, from the city level, I think recognizing the tight situation we're in and acknowledgin that the priority, the paving, the thing that you want to see in your neighborhood might not happen for the next few years.

And to just be patient, recognize the situation where navigating ourselves out of and really, you know, like I talk about paving a lot because it's do you know what asphalt made made with.

Oil, right?

Yeah, petroleum.

Right.

Right?

And when so when oil i as expensive as it is right now coupled with the financial situation we're in, we're just going to pave less going to pave less.

And it's super frustrating if you live in an alley or you live on a street that hasn't seen a, you know, hasn't seen asphalt in a few years, you're probably not going to see it, you know, next year.

And just bear with us.

We're doing the best we can.

But delivering core city services is something that the city is really, really good at.

You know we have the best public safety and public works team, I think anywhere.

And those services will never be interrupted.

Yeah So, do you think that it would be better for the city if some of our archaic laws about merging with other communities around Pittsburgh were because you talked about Allegheny County?

How its seeing population increase, right?

Would it be better if we could actually merge with some of these outlying, communities and Pittsburgh's numbers would go up?

You know what I mean?

I think the single biggest issue facing western Pennsylvania in terms of government is how fragmented we are.

Right.

You drive from downtown Pittsburgh to Monroevill and you drive through, I mean, you drive through or next to I don't know, 30 municipalities.

Yeah.

I mean, Wall, Pennsylvani has 500 people that live in it.

I mean, and that's, Wall is awesome.

Wall is awesome.

I lived in wall.

Yeah.

I can't believe anybody else knows who Wall.

We need to be, you know, like, and that means I, you know, it means the consolidation of school districts.

Right.

And you're seeing that with Duquesne and McKeesport right now.

I would have I wish the Wilkinsbur annexation had advanced to vote.

Right.

It would have been better for the residents of Wilkinsburg, right.

Their ta liability would have gone down.

So I think that exactly is like this forward way of thinking that we need to do, and it means that we need to look forward instead of, you know, doing.

You know, my mom went t Chartiers-Houston High School.

I mean, I think they might graduate 80 kids, right?

Let's be honest.

They should be absorbed in Canon-Mac Of course.

Right?

Right.

And, you know, my mom will kill me for saying that, but, like, seriously, I mean, and it's it's hard when you were the when you're the school board member or the mayor or the right, you know you played on the football team.

And you dont want to give it up.

But the reality is government is expensive by definition, right?

It's people heavy.

And when you can, you know, you know, work to consolidate and alleviate that administrative burden, you'll be able to serve more people.

Of course.

And more efficiently.

All right guys, we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

Hey guys.

It's Valerie and David with the Gen X Pittsburgh Podcast with your Gen X Culture Drop for September 29th through October 5th.

Again, we got a killer week in Pittsburgh.

We are into the fall now.

I know all the fall festival and the leaves will be changing.

I love Pittsburgh during this time.

It's favorite time of the year.

I know, I know.

Well, to start things off, it's the Pittsburgh Silent Film Fest.

This is not something we say every day, but there will be 12 films at various locations around Pittsburgh, and live music will accompany them.

How cool is that?

I'm sure it's like the old time piano.

It's going to be really cool.

This is something that I would dig to see.

I know I may go to it.

Yeah.

Let's do it.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

And Wednesday, September 30th, AEW Wrestling at the Peterson Center.

I'll bet you can find former mayor Bill Peduto there.

If wrestling isn't your thing, check out the Evolution Fashion Gala, Pittsburgh's premier sustainable fashion sho at the Pennsylvanian, downtown.

It's curated by renowned fashion fashion designer Ryan David and styled by Izzazu Salon, Spa and Blowout Bar.

They're finally, like, out here in the South Hills, Izzazu, they were downtown I think, in Wexford for a while.

But, yeah, they're finally down here and everybody is so excited.

I had to look up what a blowout bar is, I hate to say it, it's not them, it's me.

I don't ge a lot of use from blowout bars.

Right.

So.

Oh.

Oh my gosh.

You got it.

Now on October 1st, Thursday, October 1st it's Octoberfest, 11 days long, downtown Pittsburgh, Fort Duquesne Boulevard.

I think it spills over onto the bridge if they have the crazy Ferris wheel again.

Food, culture, music, beer, pretzels, mustard.

What else do you want?

Community, I love community.

I went down last year.

It was so much fun.

Oh my gosh.

Well you have to do that again too.

We went as well and we'll be going again.

All right.

And then on Friday, October 2nd, it's “Untitled” at the Carnegie Museum of Art.

It's their annual party.

There will be music, dancing.

This is the plac to get dressed up and be seen.

Will there be art there Yes, there will be tons of art.

You don't have to worry about that.

Well, if you are worried, you don't want to go because art intimidates you.

You can.

On Saturday, October 3rd, see Styx performing with The Outlaws.

That's an interesting combinatio at Citizens Live at the Wiley.

And also on Saturday, the 3rd.

It's the Festival of Combustion Yes.

At the Carey Blast Furnace.

These are our friends.

We love this place.

There will be hands on demonstrations, beer, food, dancing, live music, and so much more.

I know, I know, that would be so much fun.

It's great.

I'm gonna be ther if you want to get my autograph.

And who does?

Right.

Yeah.

Check him out, down, down there at Carey Blast Furnace.

I'll have a marker.

Okay, I bet you will.

I bet you will.

And then on Sunday, October 4th, “In Clay” at the City Theater, it's a solo musical about the artistry of ceramic artist, Marie-Berthe Cazin.

I'm assuming that's how you say it.

I don't know that for certain.

Were close, were close.

You'll let us know, right?

Right.

And on Monday, stay home and rest.

Get ready for your week.

Because there's nothing happening in Pittsburgh on Monday.

But there is a lot on Tuesday.

The Gen X Pittsburgh Podcast.

Yep.

That's it, that's it, that's it.

Fort Pitt, as they say.

That's it, Fort Pitt.

We'll see you guys next week.

Welcome back were back in with Rachel Heisler.

I have a question about housing in Pittsburgh.

The housing costs have changed tremendously over the past several years.

Are we still considered an affordable city?

It is cheaper to buy than to rent here.

Okay.

I am a, Austin, Texas actually built.

I think it was like 5000 units in 18 months, and rental prices dropped considerably.

Wow.

I don't, you know, supply and demand.

And that concept is not perfect.

But in housing, it seems to, you know, the evidence sort of seems to prove that that methodology works.

So we need to do everything we can to incentivize people to build here.

You go to the waterfront right now.

Yeah.

In Homestead.

And the zoning and permitting situation in Homestead is easier to navigate than it is in the city of Pittsburgh.

And that's what we need to change, right?

We need to change.

And, you know, you know, sort of with housing at a minimum, consider that a supply and demand issue.

There are issues with Airbnb, but every city is dealing with this.

There are issues with you know, and old housing stock.

Ours is I think we have the second oldest housing stock in the United States.

Yeah.

Everything we can do to incentivize building and construction.

You know, residential property we need to do.

And whether that's for, you know, affordable units, middle income units, high income units we need to build and we need to reform permitting.

And we need to do everything we can to get that development into the city.

And how do you feel about downtown?

Because you know, when I started, college in 1990, the streets were filled, right?

Every every street there were, you know, every corporate.

They had their corporate headquarters down downtown.

Right?

We had a Benetton downtown, we had a Gap downtown, we had a lot, Candyrama.

Right.

Is it still there?

No no, no But the reality is it's changed.

I mean, the world's changed, right?

We're never going to get that back.

How is downtown now?

So I like to look at macroeconomic trends.

When you're saying like we don't have a gap or a Benetton, how many cities in the United States have a Gap or a Benetton downtown?

Like there are actually.

Okay, you got me.

So like, people order things online and it's just how retail has changed.

And it stinks for the first floor retail space.

We need to figure out what can go in those stores.

You know, whether it's food, whether it is to some extent small retail where people go in and buy things.

But the the days of the big stores are over and it isn't Pittsburgh.

It's just what's happening with retail and you're seeing stores, you know, if youre Gap, do you want to spend money on on a retail place or, you know, retail store when you can just ship people things?

Sure.

And, you know, the answer is no.

I mean, that's what Gap is doing, is they're contracting their footprint.

So I like to think of those issues as not just Pittsburgh.

I mean, that's just a it' it's like a macro trend, right?

Yeah.

Warehouse space is now like, who would have thought warehouse space in 1990 was going to be as lucrative a of an investment as it is now?

But that's because all these shippers have, you know strategically placed warehouses on interstates around the country.

And so I, I try, you know, when you're pessimisti about an issue facing the city, you know, look at the trends and realize very often even this, like I mentioned at the beginning, even with this Covid-related hangover that we're all dealing with in the city, every municipality is dealing with it too.

Yeah.

Right?

Places you think of as fast growing Austin, Atlanta, Phoenix, San Diego al had budget deficits last year.

So I mean, it's doesn't make it okay, but it makes it, you know, it makes it feel less painful for Pittsburgh.

But are we realistic when people talk about converting like every single space to to housing downtown?

Is that the new downtown?

So hopefully in some of these buildings.

Right.

Buildings that were built in the 20s, 30s and 40s are prime conversion opportunities.

You know, what are we goin to do with the BNY Mellon Tower?

It's mostly empty, that I don't know.

And it isn't set up to be residential.

You would have to, you know, reconfigure all the plumbing in the building and all of the.

And you have the subway underneath, too.

Yes.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

So you have thes there are factors that make some buildings not prime candidates but there are other buildings.

I mean, and I'll tell you, you want to know what's bumping downtown?

Target.

You go into the Target and it is like a zoo every time you're in there.

And so the places where you would think residents would shop.

Yeah.

Are busy.

Yeah, right.

And they mail order from Gap.

And, you know, they they still get their clothes.

Right.

But, you know, the the Target's busy.

And there are other signs o things, you know, people, places where people pop i and get breakfast or smoothies.

Yeah.

Those are increasing because people grab them on their way to work.

And, you know, that needs to be the it isn't a perfect there's no perfect or a secret sauce.

Right.

Or whatever the the phrase is, there's no you know, we as a city need to throw things at a wall and see what sticks.

But retail is changing I mean, that's absolutely true.

It's just not just it's but it's true everywhere.

But what concerns me i and tell me if this is realistic is that it seems like on the one side of the city, you have Point Park, and everybody knows this, but I went to Point Parks, so I'm not putting Point Park down, but it's buying half the city, right?

So that's like not-for-profit now, right?

And then on the other hal you have the cultural district, right?

And so you only have this sliver, it seems like.

So the one thing I will point out is the cultural trust, unlike most nonprofit entities in the city, actually does pay taxes on on not all, but many of its buildings.

I did not know that.

So props to the Cultural Trust for continuing to put money into into the general fund.

But yeah, I mean, Pittsburgh has a heavy, heavy nonprofit presence.

And like I said earlier, we rely really heavily on residents because residents pay taxes.

They pay property taxes, they pay wage taxes.

What I think needs to happe to mitigate some of the changes that are happening.

And again, universities are buying a lot of random buildings in downtowns.

Yes, across the country.

But what we need to do as a state, is to change the way we can collect revenue for people who don't live in the city.

Okay.

So every right, there's a we have, the local services tax, which is basically the commuter tax in the city a dollar a week.

Yeah.

So David's a journalist in Squirrel Hill.

You pay a dollar a week, right?

And in Allentown, it's $3 a week because they were in Act 47, or maybe it was Scranton, but a town in northeast Pennsylvania, they're at $3 a week.

We woul the city would fix not entirely, but a good portio of our projected deficit in 2026 by increasing that number to $2.

Right, right.

And again, these people drive into Pittsburgh.

Yeah.

They use our sto signs, rely on our crosswalks, when something happens, they call 911.

And and that's what we need to sort of figure out how to work with the state legislature.

You know this is not a symptom of big government, right?

Rather, this is what it costs to have environmental service employees and medics and polic officers and firefighters and, you know, our, heavy road crews out plowing in the winter.

So that's what it costs.

So this is not a symptom or a problem.

It's just you can't go back to the well, and I think it's really unfair that we continue to ask city residents to bear this burden.

When people are coming here, they're earning money and they pay a dollar a week because I say, I'm from Pittsburgh.

When I'm from, you know, I live in Mount Lebanon and I still have that connection to the city.

We all do.

I think we all do.

Sure.

And downtow is the living room of the city, but it's also the living room of the region.

That's right.

So when you see things and you know you want more police officers patrolling downtown.

Which I agree with, but you pay police officers they're not volunteering because they're really nice people, even though they are really nice people.

You know, they need health insurance and they have a retirement and they're paid.

And any service and any worker you see is compensated.

And you know, again, government is people heavy and it costs money.

You got my vote.

Thanks.

Tell the others.

So has Pittsburgh figured out where it wants to be or are we still, like, reinventing ourselves?

Well, I mean, if you think of any city, what do you think of when you think of Boston?

Oh my gosh.

Baked beans.

No, I'm just.

No, I'm just saying, like.

Did you say tea?

Baked beans.

Oh, I thought you said tea.

Baked beans, Red Sox.

There's a lot of tech growth there.

Right.

Like which you don't think it's like you think a Silicon Valley as tech growth, right?

Not Boston, but Boston I think is second.

Right?

It's tech week, happ tech week to all who celebrate.

But it's tech week and Boston is second, in some categories, Pittsburgh's third.

Right.

Right?

So we're, you know where we can grow, we should grow.

I mean, I went to Pitt, Hail to Pitt.

But you know, Pitt has one of its top ten in the medical, in medical schools in the country.

We have an awesome law school.

CMU has robotics, which I still to this day cannot explai to anybody who asked about it.

But it's a lot of very smart people who are, you know, that industry is, I would argue, probably the most relevant growth, growing industry right now.

And people are coming here, they're starting companies.

It's on a relative scale, inexpensive to get office space and lab space.

And we're making it work.

So I think it's I would encourage us not to say we're this or we're tha and instead embrace everything because we need we want to continue to grow.

We want people who want t start businesses to move here.

We want to be family friendly.

We want to have good public schools and good public transportation.

So whatever industry that we can we can bring to Pittsburgh who will, you know, hire people and grow our region and grow our city, we should say yes to and, you know, I do want to say, I think that that's where Pittsburgh has been very successful and very nimble.

Is that sort of figuring out where it needs to be.

And it's not always a straight line.

It's not always easy.

Right.

But we had all the brownfields after the collapse of the steel mills, and we turned some of those into places where CMU and Pitt are doing research, right?

We had all these empt buildings, and we got the Warhol and the Mattress Factory and right, and all these art places to to move in and cultivate the cultural district.

We, you know, we've had enormous, enormous growth in the universities and in the hospitals, right?

I mean, Pittsburgh has been very good at that, if you ask me.

And those are things that that we knew after the collapse of the steel mills, we had to figure out what was going to come next.

Right.

And, and UPMC and Allegheny Health Network, Highmark, people come to Pittsburgh for medical care, right?

Oh, yeah.

And it is.

I mean, I have a friend who lives in London who had a esophageal cancer in 2007, and anywhere in the world he could have gone.

He came to Pittsburgh, right.

And now, 19 years later, he's been cancer free.

But but my you know, people come here, right?

And, you know, we're so lucky that these, you know, Dr.

Sahel, who moved here from Paris and runs the Eye Institute, is literally a world renowned ophthalmologist.

And he wanted to live in Pittsburgh.

Right.

Right.

So we just need to be.

Yes.

People.

Right?

Yes.

And that's, by the way, everything else I mentioned didn't even include the stadiums right.

And all the new concert venues.

And, I mean, this city just has a way of sort of figuring out where we should be.

And I'm not sayin there aren't a million problems in terms of government and things like that.

But I am confident, I mean, I this the question about Act 47 is asked almost universally when I speak somewhere like are we on.

No.

Yeah.

I mean, we have a stable population.

Housing has not slowed like it has elsewhere.

Right?

So it's like you didn't go to the party so you don't have the hangover.

So we still are collecting that, that tax revenue and people are still moving here.

Yeah.

We our pension fund, unlike the county, we're 81% funded.

Right.

That was an albatross around our neck 20 years ago.

And now you look, I mean, you we go to these pension meetings and it's I mean, we meet quarterly and you're like, wow, things are going well.

So things are by a lot of standards, actually looking okay for the city.

We just don't have a lot of room for error these next couple of years.

Okay.

Right.

Okay.

Well, good to know.

Good to know.

Thank you.

Rachel, we're going to have a little fun right now okay?

Okay.

We are going to.

What's it call it again?

Oh right now we're going to go to.

All right Rachel we're going to have a little fun.

It's time for the Rapid Fire Rewind.

All right.

We're going to ask you some questions.

I don't know if you're going to know a lot of these because you're a little bit younger than we are but we're going to do our best.

I was born in 1984.

Okay.

Go ahead David, you can start.

So first question iron City of Rolling Rock?

Iron City Mango.

IC Light Mango.

That is very specific.

And right now there's some guy sitting in Bellevue saying that is not Iron City.

Okay.

Well I would, come at me.

What is your favorite alternative band?

She's making like a face and we're all about like the alternative music.

Do you like Pearl Jam, Red Hot Chili Peppers?

Flea from Red Hot Chili Peppers.

He's my favorite.

Red Hot Chili Peppers, my favorit song is “Hard to Concentrate.” So Three Rivers or Heinz Field?

So I was only in Three Rivers Stadium once.

I forget how young you are.

I was born in 1984.

But I was only ther for baseball because of my age.

So, Heinz Field.

But, I really appreciate that you did not ask me if it was Acrisure.

Right.

Because, no.

A favorite Gen X movie?

Is that like “Pretty in Pink?” Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Okay.

Kathy Heisler.

Thank you, mom.

Turners or Schneider's?

Turners.

Okay.

Favorite Saturday morning cartoon.

Okay, so I grew up in the TNBC era.

Okay.

So that cartoons were never really my thing.

And I read the paper from a very early age, so I never watched morning cartoons.

No, I like.

Really?

Yeah.

No, it's very.

I love that.

It's kind of nerdy.

Yeah, but you were probably at a time when things like Saved by the Bell had replaced, what had been traditional cartoons.

Yeah, we I remember Saturdays if before because again, I was very active, but before soccer I would watch TNBC on Saturday mornings.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Donzis and Chaunceys or Metropol and Rosebud?

She has no idea what any of that stuff is.

She has no clue.

A thousand people just died.

Where is your favorite place to hang out when you're not working?

How's that one?

I love to read, so anywhere where I have.

No.

I'm serious.

I'm, like, reading a really good book right now.

It's on my Kindle, which I hate.

I prefer a book, but I couldn't get it.

I love the smell of library books.

I do something abou the glossy paper on the outside.

The Kim's out.

Or.

Stacey what are you reading right now?

The best.

“The Most Fun We Ever Had” by Claire Lombardo.

Yeah I just started it on Saturday.

I'm, like, 75% done.

What was your.

Oh.

Go ahead.

I'm sorry.

No.

Did you go to The Beehive?

Do you have a favorite over Oakland or Southside?

So there was a Beehive in Oakland.

That's right.

I think Was it that one?

Kings Court.

Where's that?

That was the name of the building.

That was the name of the building.

Right.

It's where, like one block down from, right from, from where the O was.

Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah, that's that one, isn't it?

Or is that Oakland Ave?

I can never remember.

Okay, yeah, thats where I used to go.

And Beehive was on the South side.

So when I was in college we would canvas and we would often meet at a Beehive.

Like it was just a convenient location that was always friendly to Democrats.

You're probably the only person who talked about canvasing at The Beehive so thats unique to this show.

What was your first concert?

Actually, I was a what's the one in Bergettstown?

Oh, Star Lake.

I was at Star Lake and it had a different name then for 90 Degrees when I was 13 years old.

I want my aunt won free tickets.

Oh, I love it on DVE or whatever.

It was not DVE.

It was probably B94.

Okay, sure, I don't know, I was 13.

She, my aunt, took me, my best friend Kristy, my cousin Allison, who now is a teacher and will probably be horrified that I'm admitting this and her mom.

And it poured in the middl and we had these free tickets, but they were like in the ones in the field.

Yeah, yeah.

So it was a really fun.

Yeah, yeah.

How about Kennywood or Sandcastle?

Kennywood.

Hard Kennywood.

Primantis or Pamela's?

Oh.

Pamela's.

Okay.

Okay.

Rest in peace.

Peace, Gail Klingensmith.

She was an awesome woman.

Oh, yeah.

Right.

Oh, well, Rachel, thank you so much.

Thank you Learned so much about the city.

Thank you for joining for questions.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And happy birthday to David.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

All right guys thanks for joining us.

And we will see you guys next time.

The Gen X Pittsburgh Podcast hosts are David Rullo and Valerie Christofel.

Executive producer, David Rullo.

Producer and graphic designer, Kim Rullo.

Producer, Valerie Christofel.

Video production and editor, Brent Isaac.

Music by Neostem.