>> STARTLING LEVEL OF DESTRUCTION THERE AS PEOPLE TRY AND RETURN TO THEIR HOMES.

NOW WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN UNDER INTENSE SCRUTINY, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRAINING THEIR CAMERAS ON I. C. E. AGENCY AS THEY MAKE ARRESTS.

NOW THE AGENCY IS APPARENTLY TRYING TO TURN THE TABLES WITH A DIGITAL SURVEILLANCE OPERATION THAT'S LEFT MANY THINKING TWICE ABOUT WHAT THEY POST ON SOCIAL MEDIA AFTER A NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WERE APPROACHED BY I. C. E. AGENTS ASKING ABOUT THEIR ACTIVITY ONLINE.

HANNAH CRITCHFIELD IS A REPORTER AT THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" WHO HAS BEEN INVESTIGATING THESE CASES, AND SHE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS WHAT SHE FOUND.

>> PAULA, THANKS.

HANNAH CRITCHFIELD, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU WROTE A PIECE RECENTLY IF "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" TITLED "HOW I. C. E. IS WEAPONIZING SOCIAL MEDIA AGAINST ITS CRITICS. "

WHAT DID YOUR INVESTIGATION FIND?

WALK US THROUGH IT.

>> YEAH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

SO I AND A COLLEAGUE FOUND THAT IN RECENT MONTHS, I. C. E. HAS DEPLOYED THIS ROUND-THE-CLOCK DIGITAL DRIVE NET TO SCOUR THE PUBLIC INTERNET FROM FACEBOOK TO INSTAGRAM TO X FOR SPEECH THAT COULD ENDANGER THE AGENCY'S MISSION.

AND WE FOUND THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS PAID MILLIONS TO PRIVATE CONTRACTORS TO HELP CARRY OUT THIS WORK, BOTH U. S. CITIZENS AND ACTIVIST GROUPS THAT ALERT COMMUNITY MEMBERS ABOUT I. C. E. ACTIVITY IN THEIR AREA HAVE BEEN FLAGGED UNDER THIS MONITORING.

>> OKAY.

GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF PEOPLE THAT WERE CAUGHT UP IN THIS DRAGNET.

>> SURE.

SO WE FOUND THAT THE AGENCY HAS ISSUED HUNDREDS OF SUBPOENAS RELATED TO ONLINE SPEECH TO TRY AND UNMASK ANONYMOUS POSTERS.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT THE AGENCY IS CURRENTLY TRYING TO UNMASK IS AN ANONYMOUS REDDIT USER, THEY GO BY THE NAME "TIRED THUMB" ON REDDIT.

AND THE AGENCY INITIALLY FILED A SUBPOENA REQUESTING THIS PERSON'S IDENTITY AND DETAILS ABOUT THEM RELATED TO ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF OF ONLINE SPEECH.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS COME UP IN OUR REPORTING IS THAT OFTENTIMES WHEN THE AGENCY ISSUES THESE SUBPOENAS, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF DETAIL ABOUT WHY OR WHAT THE SPEECH WAS THAT BROUGHT THIS PERSON UNDER THE GOVERNMENT'S EYE.

BUT WE IDENTIFY THAT BETWEEN JANUARY TO MID-FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR, THIS ANONYMOUS USER POSTED ABOUT THE AGENCY THREE TIMES.

EACH TIME IT WAS CRITICIZING IMMIGRATION AGENTS AFTER A U. S. CITIZEN HAD BEEN KILLED BY AN IMMIGRATION OFFICER.

ONE WAS AFTER RENEE GOODE AND TWO WERE AFTER ALEX PRETTI WAS FATALLY SHOT.

IT IS A REALLY INTERESTING THING BECAUSE WE FIND THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF INVESTIGATIONS GOING ON, BUT OFTENTIMES THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING INVESTIGATED DON'T KNOW WHAT EXACTLY IT IS THAT THEY DID.

BUT THEIR DEFENSE ATTORNEYS HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID THAT THEY WERE POSTING FIRST AMENDMENT SPEECH THAT WAS CRITICAL OF THE AGENCY.

>> THERE WAS A CHIEF LEGAL OFFICER AT REDDIT WHO PUT OUT THE STATEMENT PRIVACY IS CENTRAL TO HOW REDDIT OPERATES.

HE SAID THE COMPANY ROUTINELY OBJECTS TO GOVERNMENT REQUESTS THAT ARE OVERBOARD OR THREATEN USERS CIVIL RIGHTS INCLUDING FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

WE ALSO NOTIFY IMPACTED USERS WHENEVER POSSIBLE SO THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEEK COUNSEL AND DEFEND THEIR INTERESTS.

ANY OF THESE INTERESTS THAT I. C. E. GOING AFTER THESE PEOPLE FOR, WAS THERE SPECIFIC KIND OF INTELLIGENCE THAT THEY WERE SHARING OR WAS IT JUST THAT THEY DIDN'T LIKE WHAT WAS GOING ON?

>> THE AGENCY SAYS THAT THEY ARE EXPERIENCING AN 8,000% INCREASE IN DEATH THREATS AGAINST THEIR OFFICERS AND THEIR OFFICERS' FAMILIES.

AND THEY SAY THAT THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE INVESTIGATING ARE ALL CREDIBLE THREATS.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT DURING THIS ADMINISTRATION, THE AGENCY HAS EMBRACED A BROADER DEFINITION OF WHAT CONSTITUTES AS DOXXING.

THIS IS TRADITIONALLY THOUGHT OF AS SHARING SOMEBODY'S INFORMATION.

UNDER THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION, THE DHS HAS SAID POSTING FOOTAGE OF AN OFFICER ON THE JOB ONLINE IS DOXXING.

IT HAS HEAVILY IMPLIED THAT NEWS OUTLETS WHO PUBLISH THE NAME OF THE OFFICER WHO FATALLY SHOT RENEE GOODE WERE ENGAGED IN RECKLESS HARMFUL BEHAVIOR THAT ENDANGERED THE LIFE OF THEIR AGENTS.

WE KNOW THAT THE AGENCY HAS TAKEN A REALLY HARD-LINE STANCE ON DOXXING.

THEY HAVE ASSERTED THAT IT IS A CRIME ITSELF.

LEGAL EXPERTS WE SPOKE TO SAID THE REALITY IS A LITTLE BIT MORE NUANCED.

IN ORDER TO BREAK THE LAW TO COMMIT A CRIME YOU HAVE TO SHARE THIS PERSONAL INFORMATION WITH SOME SORT OF CRIMINAL INTENT.

THAT'S ACTUALLY REALLY HARD TO PROVE IN A COURT.

AND SOME OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS AND DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WE SPOKE TO ABOUT THESE INVESTIGATIONS THAT I. C. E. HAS OPENED HAVE THEORIZED THAT THAT'S PARTIALLY WHY YOU'RE SEEING SO FEW CHARGES BEING FILED.

YOU ARE SEEING A LOT OF PEOPLE BEING INVESTIGATED FOR THEIR ONLINE SPEECH, BUT FEWER ACTUAL CHARGES.

SO THEY HAVE POSITED IT MAY BE AN INTIMIDATION TACTIC.

I. C. E. SAYS THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOB TO INVESTIGATE CREDIBLE THREATS.

>> YOU SAID THAT THE SPENDING ON SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY AND CONSULTANTS REACHED $258 MILLION IN THE PRESIDENT'S FIRST FULL YEAR BACK IN OFFICE, WHICH IS A 57% INCREASE FROM THE YEAR BEFORE.

YOU ALSO POINT OUT THAT THEY PAID OUT NEARLY $50 MILLION SINCE 2020 ON THESE AROUND-THE-CLOCK OPERATIONS, AT LEAST IN SIX DIFFERENT CONTRACTS.

GIVE ME AN IDEA OF THE KIND OF DOSSIER THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO COMPILE DURING SURVEILLANCE.

WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION ABOUT PEOPLE THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT CAN THEY GATHER, DO THEY GATHER?

>> THE GOVERNMENT HAS PAID MILLIONS TO THESE PRIVATE CONTRACTORS, AND THEY'RE TASKED WITH SURFACING TWO TYPES OF ONLINE ACTIVITY, POTENTIAL THREATS TO AGENTS, TO I. C. E. EMPLOYEES, TO THEIR FAMILIES, AND SPEECH THAT COULD POTENTIALLY DISRUPT I. C. E.

'S OPERATIONS.

THEY USE THESE POWERFUL OPEN SOURCE INVESTIGATIVE TOOLS TO ALLOW FOR CONSTANT MONITORING IN THE BACKGROUND.

AND THEN THEY PREPARE DAILY REPORTS FOR I. C. E. ABOUT SPEECH THAT THEY FOUND ONLINE, AS WELL AS AD HOC EMERGENCY ALERTS TO THE AGENCY.

FOR INSTANCE, CONTRACTORS MIGHT NOTIFY I. C. E. IF THEY'RE SEEING A LOT OF CHATTER FROM A RAPT RESPONSE GROUP IN A PARTICULAR AREA.

SO AGENTS IN THE FIELD CAN HAVE THIS SITUATIONAL AWARENESS ABOUT POSSIBLE ATTEMPTS TO IMPEDE THEIR WORK.

BUT THEY'RE ALSO ASKED TO PREPARE DOSSIERS ON PEOPLE WHO HAVE POSTED SPEECH THAT'S DEEMED POTENTIALLY THREATENING.

IF THEY'RE ABLE TO, THOSE REPORTS INCLUDE THE PERSON'S NAME, THEIR LOCATION RIGHT DOWN TO THEIR HOME ADDRESS, THEIR DATE OF BIRTH, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, VEHICLE REGISTRATION AND CRIMINAL HISTORY.

THEY HAND THESE OVER TO I. C. E.

'S STAFF WHO CAN DEVELOP IT FURTHER.

ONE WAY THIS MIGHT HAPPEN IS THROUGH THE SUBPOENAS THAT WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT BEFORE.

IF A THREAT ACTOR CAN'T BE IDENTIFIED, AGENTS MIGHT ISSUE A SUBPOENA TO A SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANY FOR THEIR IDENTITY.

>> YOU HAVE POINTED OUT THERE HAVE BEEN ALL THESE DIFFERENT SUBPOENAS.

WHO ARE THEY GOING TO?

WHAT ARE THE PLATFORMS THAT I. C. E. IS SURVEILLING, AND WHAT DO THE PLATFORMS DO IN RESPONSE?

>> SO THE NOTICE FOR THE SPECIFIC CONTRACT CALLS FOR THE MONITORING OF THE PUBLIC INTERNET, WHICH MEANS BOTH THE DARK WEB, ASPECTS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU AND I AND PERHAPS MANY VIEWERS HAVE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT ACCESSING, BUT ALSO REALLY COMMONLY USED SOCIAL MEDIA.

THE NOTICE FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM CALLS FOR THE MONITORING OF MORE THAN 20 SOCIAL MEDIA SITES.

THAT'S LINKEDIN, REDDIT, DISCORD, SNAPCHAT, THOUGH IT MAY BE MONITORING EVEN MORE THAN THAT.

WHEN I IS A I THE PUBLIC WEB, I MEAN THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT OFTEN HAS APPROACHED SOCIAL MEDIA AS AN INVESTIGATIVE TOOL ONLY USING THINGS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN THE PUBLIC EYE.

IT'S SORT OF LIKE THEY CAN WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT OBSERVE SOMEONE PERHAPS EXCHANGING DRUGS IN A TRANSACTION IN THE PUBLIC EYE.

IF MY GRAHAM IS PRIVATE, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT ME.

BUT IF MY GRAHAM IS PUBLIC OR I'M POSTING IN A PUBLIC FACEBOOK GROUP, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S COMING UNDER THIS KIND OF MONITORING.

AND FOR SITES LIKE REDDIT'S, WHERE A LOT OF IT IS JUST OPEN AND PUBLICLY AVAILABLE, THAT'S SUBJECT TO MONITORING AT ANY TIME.

IN TERMS OF SUBPOENAS, THEY HAVE ISSUED SUBPOENAS TO METAPHOR FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM ACCOUNTS.

THEY'VE ISSUED SUBPOENAS TO REDDIT, TO GOOGLE, INCLUDING FOR EMAILS THAT INDIVIDUAL USERS HAVE WRITTEN TO AGENCY STAFF.

SO IT'S A REALLY WIDE VARIETY OF SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES THAT WE KNOW HAVE BEEN ASKED TO TURN OVER THIS INFORMATION ABOUT USERS.

>> AND I WONDER AGAIN, WHAT IS THAT LEVEL OF COOPERATION, WHETHER IT'S META OR WHETHER IT'S GOOGLE.

AND IF THEY'RE BARRAGED WITH 100 OF THESE, I DO THAT HAVE A SYSTEMATIC REVIEW OF EVERY SINGLE REQUEST THE GOVERNMENT IS MAKING OR DO THEY JUST SAY YOU KNOW WHAT?

WE'RE JUST GOING TO TRUST THE GOOD IS GOOD FOR IT AND WE'RE GOING THE HAND OVER THIS DATA.

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP AGAIN AND AGAIN IN OUR REPORTING.

THESE SUBPOENAS THAT ARE SENT ON BEHALF OF I. C. E. , THEY REQUEST THAT THE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANY NOT REVEAL THEIR EXISTENCE TO ANYONE.

SO IT'S UP TO THE PLATFORM TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO COMPLY WITH THAT OR ALERT THE USER IN QUESTION.

IT'S POSSIBLE PEOPLE HAVE HAD THEIR IDENTITIES TURNED OVER TO DHS WITHOUT EVER KNOWING THE SUBJECT OF AN INVESTIGATION.

THAT SAID, COMPANIES WE SPOKE TO DO --THEY SAID THAT THEY DO ALERT USERS ABOUT THESE SUBPOENAS WHEN POSSIBLE, LIKE YOU MENTIONED.

SO USERS CAN THEN FIND LEGAL REPRESENTATION AND PUSH BACK.

BOTH REDDIT AND META WHICH OWNS FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM ALSO PROVIDED SPECIFIC EXAMPLES OF TIMES WHEN THEIR ATTORNEYS PUSHED BACK ON BEHALF OF USERS, WHEN THEY FELT THE SUBPOENAS WERE OVERLYELY BROAD.

BUT IT'S UNCLEAR IN BROAD TERMS HOY OFTEN THIS HAPPENS.

I THINK YOUR QUESTION GETS TO THE HEART OF THIS.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN THIS IS HAPPENING TO USERS ON A GIVEN PLATFORM, HOW OFTEN A SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANY IS NOTIFYING USERS, HOW OFTEN THAT PLATFORM IS PUSHING BACK VERSUS EXPECTING THE USER TO FIND THEIR OWN LEGAL REPRESENTATION, OR EVEN HOW OFTEN IT RECEIVES REQUESTS FROM DHS RELATED TO QUESTIONS ABOUT IMMIGRATION OR OFFICERS OVERALL UNLESS A COMPANY CHOOSES TO DISCLOSE IT.

IT'S ENTIRELY OPTION FOR THEM THEM TO SHARE WITH THE PUBLIC.

>> ANY ALLEGATION THAT DHS AND I. C. E. ARE ATTEMPTING TO SQUASH FREE SPEECH IS CATEGORICALLY FALSE, AND THAT I. C. E. INVESTIGATES ALL CREDIBLE THREATS TOWARDS ITS EMPLOYEES, OFFICERS AND FAMILIES.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE POLL WORKER.

I THINK IT'S PAGE LA GAGNE.

WHAT HAPPENED TO HER?

>> PAGE LYNN IS WORKING AS A POLL WORKER DURING NEW YORK'S PRIMARIES IN JUNE AND SEES THERE IS A VOICE MAIL FROM AN UNKNOWN NUMBER.

AND SHE LISTENS TO IT, AND IT SAYS THAT THE PERSON WHO IS CALLING IS AN AGENT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

THEY JUST STOPPED BY HER HOUSE, AND SOMEONE PASSED ALONG HER NUMBER.

AND THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR HER TO SPEAK TO HER ABOUT AN INSTAGRAM POST WHERE SHE DOXXED AN AGENT IN JANUARY.

THEN THEY DELIVER THIS TO HER AT THE POLLING SITE.

THEY ASK HER TO SIGN IT.

SHE SAID I'M NOT COMFORTABLE SIGNING, I WANT TO TALK TO MY LAWYER, BUT SHE KEEPS THE LETTER.

IT'S WHY ANYONE KNOWS ABOUT THESE LETTERS IN THE FIRST PLACE, SHE POSTS IT ON HER SOCIAL MEDIA.

SHE HAS CONTINUED TO POST PUBLICLY, BUT SAID AS A RESULT OF THIS INCIDENT THAT PEOPLE ONLINE HAVE DUG UP HER INFORMATION WHERE SHE LIVES, THINGS ABOUT HER PAST.

PAGE LYNN HAS SAID SHE HAS NO RECOLLECTION OF EVER DOXXING AN AGENT AND THAT THE ONLY SOCIAL MEDIA POST SHE COULD FIND ABOUT AN AGENT FROM JANUARY WAS ONE WHERE SHE SAID THAT JONATHAN ROSS SHOULD BE INDICTED.

AND SHE SHARED THE ORIGINAL MINNESOTA STAR TRIBUNE ARTICLE THAT REVEALS HIS NAME AND THAT HE WAS THE AGENT WHO SHOT RENEE GOODE.

DHS I SHOULD SAY PROVIDED -- THEY SHOWED ME A SCREEN SHOT OF A DIFFERENT POST THAT APPEARED TO BE FROM PAGE LYNN'S ACCOUNT THAT WAS REDACTED.

IT SAID THE KILLER'S NAME IS JONATHAN ROSS OF --AND THE REST OF IT WAS REDACTED.

THEY SAID SHE SHARED HIS ADDRESS IN THIS POST.

WE ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT META TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND, TO SEE IF THEY WOULD VERIFY THE EXISTENCE OF THIS POST OR NOT.

IT'S NOT CURRENTLY ON PAGE LYNN'S INSTAGRAM.

IT DIDN'T APPEAR IN HER DELETED FOLDER.

IT DIDN'T APPEAR IN HERMIT THAT DATA.

I SHOULD SAY SOMETIMES DELETED POSTS DO NOT APPEAR IN ANY OF THOSE PLACES AFTER 30 DAYS.

AND THAT'S PART OF THE CHALLENGE OF THE AGENCY INVESTIGATING HER MORE THAN FIVE MONTHS AFTER SHE ALLEGEDLY EXHIBITED THIS BEHAVIOR.

>> SO I WONDER IN THIS KIND OF DIGITAL LANDSCAPE, HAVE THERE BEEN COURT CASES THAT HAVE TRIED TO DETERMINE THIS?

>> ONE OF THE BIZARRE THINGS THAT CAME UP AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR US DURING THIS REPORTING WAS THAT A LOT OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WE SPOKE TO WHO HAD SOME SORT OF INTERACTION WITH THE AGENCY, WHO KNEW THAT THEY HAD BEEN INVESTIGATED IN SOME CAPACITY OVER THEIR ONLINE SPEECH HAD NOT YET FACED ANY SORT OF CHARGES.

THEY HAD BEEN INVESTIGATED BUT --AND IN SOME INSTANCES, THEIR IDENTITIES WERE TURNED OVER TO DHS, OR WE KNOW THEY WERE IDENTIFIED BY THE AGENCY.

BUT THEY HAVE NOT YET FACED ANY SORT OF CHARGES.

IT IS ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THAT DEFENSE ATTORNEYS SAY THAT THEY BELIEVE THIS MAY BE AN INTIMIDATION TACTIC, BECAUSE IT'S INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO CHALLENGE THE LEGALITY OF THIS IF IT'S JUST UNDER THE GUISE OF A LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATION BUT NO CHARGES HAVE YET BEEN FILED.

>> SO HAS THE GOVERNMENT MADE SUCCESSFUL CONVICTIONS, INDICTMENTS AGAINST PEOPLE WHO THEY HAVE FOUND THROUGH THIS DRAGNET?

>> DEFINITELY.

AND ONE THING THAT I DON'T THINK ANYONE DISAGREES ABOUT IS THAT VITRIOL TOWARDS I. C. E. AND IMMIGRATION OFFICERS ONLINE IS --IT'S HIGH RIGHT NOW.

THERE IS A LOT OF ONLINE VITRIOL.

AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME INSTANCES IN THE LAST YEAR OF PEOPLE BEING PROSECUTED AND CONVICTED FOR RELATED TO SPEECH THAT THEY MADE ONLINE THERE WAS A MAN IN OKLAHOMA WHO WAS CONVICTED OF THREATENING TO KILL FEDERAL AGENTS BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HE WROTE ON X. THERE IS ANOTHER INSTANCE WHERE TWO WOMEN WERE CONVICTED IN A LOS ANGELES COURT OF STALKING BECAUSE THEY WERE LIVE STREAMING FROM AN I. C. E. WATCH ACCOUNT ON INSTAGRAM.

THEY WERE LIVE STREAMING AS THEY FOLLOWED AN AGENT IN HIS VEHICLE.

BOTH -- BOTH OF THE DEFENDANTS HAVE SAID THAT THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE FOLLOWING THIS AGENT TO AN IMMIGRATION RAID.

ULTIMATELY, THOUGH, THE AGENT WAS DRIVING TO HIS HOME, AND THEY ENDED UP AT HIS STREET.

AND IT DIDN'T REVEAL HIS ADDRESS, BUT IT DID REVEAL WHERE HE LIVED.

THEY WERE ULTIMATELY CONVICTED OF STALKING FOR THAT.

SO THERE HAVE BEEN PROSECUTIONS AND CONVICTIONS FOR ONLINE SPEECH, SPECIFICALLY FOR ENDANGERING OR INTIMIDATING OR STALKING IMMIGRATION AGENTS.

>> LOOK, YOU HAVE ALSO BEEN DOING STORIES ABOUT THE INCREASE OF FUNDING THAT GOES INTO I GUESS WHAT IS THE SURVEILLANCE ECONOMY.

I MEAN, AS YOU LOOK AT THIS AND YOU SEE KIND OF NEW SURFACES WHERE SURVEILLANCE IS AFFECTING THE LIVES OF INDIVIDUALS, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT KIND OF LARGER CONTEXT?

>> YOU KNOW, THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY WAS FOUNDED IN THE WAKE OF 9/11 TO PROTECT THE HOMELAND, RIGHT.

IT'S IN ITS NAME.

BUT SPEAKING WITH STAFFERS AND FORMER STAFFERS, IT'S ALWAYS HAD A BIT OF A TENSION IN ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH SURVEILLANCE BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT --JUST LIKE YOU SAID BEFORE.

YOU DON'T WANT TO NOT TAKE A POTENTIAL THREAT SERIOUSLY AND THEN HAVE AN ATTACK ON DOMESTIC SOIL.

THAT'S REALLY HARD.

U. S. CITIZENS, AMERICANS ARE REALLY TOUCHY ABOUT --AND I THINK UNDERSTANDABLY SO, REALLY TOUCHY ABOUT FEARS ABOUT OVERREACH WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE.

WE KNOW THAT WE'RE IN A TIME WHEN THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY HAS MORE MONEY TO SPEND ON NEW TOOLS AND HAS PURCHASED NEW TOOLS, A LOT OF THEM, THAT HAVE SUPER CHARGED ITS SURVEILLANCE CAPABILITIES.

THE AGENCY IS SLATED TO RECEIVE EVEN MORE MONEY IN THE COMING YEARS.

AND I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE WATCHING OUT FOR.

JUST EXACTLY HOW THOSE RESOURCES ARE BEING USED, WHAT'S BEING PURCHASED AND HOW IT'S BEING DEPLOYED, LIKE YOU SEE IN THIS SOCIAL MEDIA PROGRAM.

>> HANNAH CRITCHFIELD, REPORTER AT "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL," THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

> >> AND FINALLY FOR US, A MOMENT OF REFLECTION MARKING THE 81st ANNIVERSARY OF THE ATOMIC BOMB IN NAGASAKI.

[ BELL RINGING ] THE BELLS IN NAGASAKI RANG ON SUNDAY AT 11:02 A. M. LOCAL TIME, THE EXACT MOMENT THE BOMB HIT THE CITY IN 1945.

ONLY DAYS AFTER THE U. S. DROPPED THE FIRST ATOMIC BOMB IN HIROSHIMA.

CHRISTIANE SPOKE WITH ONE OF THE SURVIVORS OF THE HIROSHIMA BOMBING ON THE 75th ANNIVERSARY BACK IN 2020 AND NOW TETSUKO THOROUGHLOW WAS ONLY 13 WHEN THE BOMB HIT AND SHE HAS BEEN SHARING HER STORY EVERY SINCE.

HERE WHAT'S SHE SAW ON THAT DAY.

>> WE WERE IN A HUGE WOODEN BUILDING ON THE SECOND FLOOR ONE MILE AWAY FROM THE GROUND ZERO.

AND THEN I THINK THE CLOCK, WE STARTED THE MORNING ASSEMBLY.

AND WHEN THE MAJOR WAS SPEAKING TO US, GIVING US THE CHEER, PEP TALK.

THEN SUDDENLY, I SAW THE BLUEISH WHITE FLASH, AND I STILL HAVE THE SENSATION OF FLOATING UP IN THE AIR.

AND WHEN I REGAINED THE CONSCIOUSNESS, I FOUND MYSELF IN TOTAL DARKNESS AND TOTAL SILENCE.

AND I TRIED TO MOVE MY BODY, BUT I COULDN'T.

SO I KNEW I WAS FACING DEATH.

THEN I STARTED HEARING FAINT VOICES, ALL MY GIRLFRIENDS AROUND, AND THEY WERE ASKING FOR HELP FROM THEIR MOTHERS, FROM THEIR GOD.

AND THEN SOMEBODY STRONG MALE VOICE SAID "DON'T GIVE UP, DON'T GIVE UP, KEEP PUSHING, KEEP KICKING.

I'M TRYING TO FREE YOU. "

SO THIS MAN IN THE DARK, I WAS RESCUED.

>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

COM/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO. "

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

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> >> "AMANPOUR & CO.