I'm Christopher Gaul.

The desegregation of Pittsburgh's public schools is both a complex and volatile issue.

In just a few moments, we shall try to make some sense of it all.

In the third of WQED special four part series, Desegregation: The Pittsburgh Transition.

Our special guests will be doctor Jerry Olson, the superintendent of Pittsburgh's public schools, and his deputy superintendent, Doctor Curtis Walker.

Joining them will be other high ranking school officials who will explain just what our desegregation plans are and what they will mean to parents and students alike.

And you will have a chance to ask them questions directly by phone.

So stay tuned for Desegregation: The Pittsburgh Transition.

The following program is made possible by your local contributions.

It was in 1968 that the State Human Relations Commission first obtained an order for the city's school system to desegregate.

11 years later, that order is still in litigation and no school desegregation plan has yet been implemented.

The school board presented a plan in 1968.

It wasn't approved again.

In 1969, the board submitted a desegregation plan to the commission.

It, too, was turned down.

1973 also saw the school board failing in its quest for an approved desegregation form.

On August the 11th, 1978, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court unanimously rejected an attempt by the board to void the lower court's ruling, which required a comprehensive city integration plan.

Finally, late last year, the Pittsburgh School Board was given until July 1st of this year to come up with a definitive plan to correct racial imbalance in its schools.

It already has done so, and the current plan is called Magnet Schools.

It is controversial.

It is complicated, and it has not as yet been approved by the Human Relations Commission.

Tonight you're going to find out.

Just want this plan is.

Stay with us.

As WQED takes an extensive look at Desegregation: The Pittsburgh Transition.

Good evening, and welcome to the third of a four part series where airing this week on the subject of desegregation.

I'm Christopher Gaul and I'm Don Marbury.

This program this evening is probably the most important of all the specials that we've been producing this week on the topic of desegregation.

Monday night, you were given the opportunity to ask questions of the superintendent of the Boston Public School system, a city which unfortunately had to go through a violent court ordered bussing to achieve racial balance.

Last night, the superintendent from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, a system which made the transition easily and is now considered one of the best in the country, was the featured guest.

But tonight we're back home.

The most pleased to have with us this evening, the superintendent of the Pittsburgh Public School system, Dr.

Jerry Olson, and his deputy superintendent, Dr.

Curtis Walker.

They've brought along with them members of their top administrative staff.

And later on in this program, you're going to be given the opportunity to ask questions of them.

We also have principals, teachers and counselors with us making up our studio audience.

And perhaps they too will have some comments.

Dr.

Olson, Dr.

Walker.

Welcome to our studios.

In the past two nights, as you know, we've been, taking a look at, Boston system and Milwaukee system and a lot of our phone calls and, studio audience questions.

Have been very interesting.

I know you've heard the programs.

What we need to do right now.

What we need from you is a brief, succinct, description of exactly what the magnet schools desegregation plan is for Pittsburgh.

Chris, I think we have an opportunity here through Magnet Schools to provide some educationally sound alternatives for our young people from time to time to school district over the years, even before 1968, when the Human Relations Commission asked for a plan.

The school district has been putting programs onto line that enriched, the entire program offerings for the schools.

And we could go back and talk about the scholars programs, the programs that have come down the road.

We now have a set of educationally sound alternative programs called Magnets.

The choice is yours.

They are they are options that are educationally sound.

Some of them are in the elementary schools, somewhere in the middle schools, and some are in the high schools, and they are voluntary.

We have been working with the board for the last number of months since the court order came down from Commonwealth court to come up with a plan by July the 1st, to put together the components of this plan.

And what has emerged from this is a voluntary desegregation plan based on a number of wide ranging magnets.

Could you describe, briefly, exactly what a Magnet School is?

And a lot of people who are intensely involved with the process know, but I'm not sure everyone else really understands what it means.

A Magnet School is either a school or a program that attracts the parent or the student to it.

As a result of the specific kind of subject matter that's offered, or the mode of the instruction, or the climate, or an entirely different kind of educational experience, and the student would be able to get in his or her home school.

So it is, in effect, a voluntary system.

This is voluntary.

It is what we ended up with after looking at a wide range of of options and alternatives that the school district discussed, took public testimony on.

And the immediate implementation goes to voluntary aspects through the Magnet Schools.

Now, there are other components of the plan that are going to be submitted.

It will be submitted to the Human Relations Commission that do utilize some mandatory aspects in the establishment of special subject matter centers.

But for this fall, we are talking about voluntary components of the desegregation plan that will be submitted.

And these are through the Magnet Dr.

Walker, let me ask you if I may, sir, are you, truly confident that this program is going to work Magnet Schools?

Well, the, confidence itself can be expressed, I guess, in the aspect that we aren't really the first ones to do this.

Several cities have initiated and have also, put forth, a voluntary Magnet School plan, as well as, in many cases, a Magnet School plan that has been voluntary with other aspects of, bringing children together in a desegregated, aspect.

But the we're not really inventing the wheel.

We do have, other cities that have tried it.

Other communities that have tried it.

And, we can really rely upon the experiences of those to see whether or not our particular, potential plan will be successful.

It's still very experimental that, I mean, as far as Pittsburgh is concerned, well enough that we haven't had the Magnet Schools, previously.

Desegregation is not new in Pittsburgh, of course.

We have, Gonzaga has been held back by segregation.

No, segregation is not new.

I'm sorry I said desegregation is not new in Pittsburgh.

We have gone through the aspect of Disaggregating and the elementary schools, as well as, middle schools.

We have, in Pittsburgh attempted to go towards the five, three, four plan, which was geared toward, desegregation.

And, I guess the, the, elementary aspect of the Martin Luther King, the Greenway, the rising Star, and so on shows the aspect of Pittsburgh, being in a desegregated atmosphere.

However, of course, as we have been told by the Pennsylvania Relations Commission, this isn't totally adequate.

Dr Walker, what you and Dr Olson are saying is that you are going to make the existing schools.

Yes.

So good, so good looking.

The curriculum is going to be so good that students from other neighborhoods are just going to want to go, and they're just going to volunteer.

Their parents are going to volunteer them to go.

And that is how we are going to achieve primarily desegregation in the city of Pittsburgh.

Is that right?

Well done.

This program very clearly, and the success of it is dependent upon the response from this community and the student body to want to go to these programs and obviously, the responsibility falls on our shoulders to make certain that those programs are there, that they are well executed, and that clearly they bring something that the student can't get at the school he left.

I think we can do that.

But the component of it, whereby the student and the parent make that choice is a very, very crucial one.

And it's one that obviously they must be well-educated about.

They must be willing, with an open mind, to look at the opportunities and the options that are available to them.

That's why I'm pleased that we're getting this opportunity through channel 13 to do this, this presentation.

Well, among our studio audience, three of your assistant superintendents, who take care of elementary schools, middle schools and secondary schools.

Mrs.

Louise Brennen, is here, and she is assistant superintendent of the elementary schools in Pittsburgh.

Mrs.

Brennen, I wonder if you could briefly tell us what the desegregation plan is going to mean in terms of elementary schools, certain option Magnet Schools and programs to be offered by the Pittsburgh public elementary schools for the 1979, 1980 school year present exciting educational opportunities for elementary school age children.

Choices for elementary children will feature a variety of teaching styles and learning environments.

Specifically, there will be four options available for parental and student consideration before all day kindergarten.

Magnet program option, the traditional Academy Magnet School option, the Open Space instructional option, and the Bilingual magnet program option.

The four day kindergarten program option is an opportunity for five year olds to benefit from additional experiences that will promote their physical and perceptual and intellectual growth by spending a full day in the kindergarten, as opposed to a half day, which our regular program offers to child, to children.

Presently, the children will have more time to spend in activities which will not only help them to learn to play and work cooperatively with each other, but they will acquire basic readiness skills in reading and listening and arithmetic and listening and speaking.

The full day kindergarten program option is in reality, an expansion and an extension of our existing basic kindergarten curriculum.

Children who are residents within the Pittsburgh School District and who will attain the age of five years by January 31st of 1980, may apply to enroll in the full day kindergarten Magnet program at any of these ten locations.

The Chartiers Elementary School, which is in the West End of the city, the East Hills Elementary School in the East Hills area, Liberty Elementary School, and Shadyside Miller Elementary School in the Hill District, Morrow Elementary School on the north side, the Overbrook Elementary School in Overbrook, the Regent Square Elementary School in the East End, the Westwood Elementary School in West End, the Whiteland Elementary School in Squirrel Hill, and Whittier School in Mount Washington.

We tried to get a geographic spread in offering these Magnet programs.

We will be accepting applications from parents, starting on April the 30th.

Applications can be obtained at any Pittsburgh public elementary school, and we will continue to accept them through May the 25th.

Transportation is going to be provided at the expense of the school district.

For those children who live one and a half miles or more from their home to the, full day kindergarten program of their choice.

This, of course, is in keeping with the board's existing policy of providing transportation.

This Magnet program has been in the, I should say, the full day kindergarten program as a pilot program has been in existence in six centers during this present school year.

And because of the positive reaction from many parents and the results of a study, which we did this year, we are going to offer under this new board approved plan, the full day kindergarten program as an add on magnet beginning this coming September.

Now, let's take a look at the traditional Academy Magnet School, which is another offering for, parents and students who want to enroll in, two of our elementary schools, which have been designated as traditional academy schools.

They are McCleary Elementary School, located in the Lawrenceville area of the city, and Shaeffer Elementary School, located in the West End.

The traditional academy option is a unique opportunity for those children who can be most productive in a highly structured and a highly disciplined classroom setting.

The classroom environment of the traditional academy is going to require that pupils adhere to very strict regulations governing their behavior, their attendance, their promptness, and their self-control.

Emphasis, you see, is going to be placed on pupil achievement and on the acquisition of the basic skills.

Homework is going to be required.

Grades are going to be assigned according to the traditional letter grade method.

Respect for learning will be extended by the establishment of a dress code, which will be developed by the staff and neatness and cleanliness and appropriateness of dress is going to be required for both students and staff.

Who is eligible for this program?

Students who are, residing again in the Pittsburgh school district and who, will thrive in such an environment as I have just described, would certainly be eligible for filling out an application upon approval of an application, an interview will be arranged.

And at this time, there's going to be an understanding developed between and among teachers, parents and students concerning the school's guidelines for the instruction.

And certainly students and parents and guardians are going to be expected to sign consent or approval forms, which will endorse the program's requirements.

And again, with this particular Magnet School program offering, as with the others, we will provide transportation for those students who reside one and a half miles or more, from their home to the Magnet School of their choice.

Our third, Magnet School option available to parents, but is called an Open Space instructional Magnet School.

We presently have three elementary school buildings in our school district, which have been designed as open space facilities.

They are Carmalt Elementary School in East Brookline, the Martin Luther King on the north side and East Hills in the east end area of the city, and each of these buildings is constructed free, generally free of interior walls, and the instructional areas are open areas which we call pods, and this openness allows our children to move very easily into various teaching groups.

We have acoustical treatment, including carpeting in these, buildings, which helps to keep a noise level to a minimum.

Furniture can be arranged into different appropriate patterns for various learning activities.

Certainly communication is a key mechanism of the Open School option.

And so in order to assure a constant flow of communication, we have organized teachers in the pods into teaching teams.

And there are teaching assistant Please bear in mind that in all of our schools, we stress the basic skills.

In addition to stressing the basic skills in the open space Magnet School.

These are features, unique to the Open Space school, which I would like to highlight the flexible scheduling that can occur, the strong use of parent and community volunteers as resource people, multiple program choices for youngsters, science labs, fully equipped spacious gymnasiums, and in two of the three schools multimedia centers.

Again, youngsters eligible would be youngsters who live in the Pittsburgh school district and who would opt for this kind of program.

Mrs.

Brennen.

Yes.

I congratulate you on a remarkable tour de force.

Somehow I feel as though I should, sit up straighter in my chair, but it sounds pretty good.

We're going to call it.

Thank you very much.

We're going to call on Dr.

William Green.

Who's the assistant superintendent of Pittsburgh middle schools.

Before we do that, however, let me remind our viewers, if I may, that we want to hear your phone calls.

Dr.

Olson, Dr.

Walker are here, as are some of the assistant superintendents.

They will answer your calls.

The number to call is 621-4300, 621-4300.

Dr.

Green, I wonder if you'll be kind enough to, to give us a little prophecy of, what's going to happen with the middle schools?

All right.

Thank you very much.

Actually, I heard the question asked earlier.

What did, we feel that the Magnet School program would do for the schools for desegregation?

Well, as you may know, the middle schools have been the focal point for desegregation for quite some time.

And so, therefore, we have the greatest opportunity, I think, at this time, to complete our package almost 100%.

There may be an exception or two.

So, most of the middle schools are in some kind of balance.

There's 1 or 2 that are out of balance.

However, the, two that are completely out of balance are two of the ones who are out of balance.

Now will become the, the facilities for our Magnet Schools.

So if this is done right and we're trying to do it right and trying to make it very attractive for students to come to it, we could end up with all but perhaps one middle school being desegregated through the Magnet School plan.

So we have the, as a department, we have the most to gain.

I think we could really have a package that really capitalizes on all the efforts that have been, accomplished in the last ten years.

And also, even though the magnets are being, devised and publicized and so forth, by the department and middle schools, because of our unique, organization of schools, there are sixth, seventh, and eighth graders in many school buildings.

There are some in elementary schools and there are some in middle schools.

So the magnets that you'll hear about tonight are for any students in grades six, seven and eight.

And it doesn't matter what school or organization they're in, it's not for middle school students to go to middle school magnets.

These magnets are for any students in grades six, seven, and eight, in any school, wherever they may be.

So there's the hope of of having an integrated situation at grades six, seven and eight.

Thank you very much, Doctor Green.

It's beginning to make some sense to me.

We've been reading about, the desegregation plans for the last three weeks, but now it's coming together.

Dr.

Helen, Faison is with us also, and Dr.

Faison is the assistant superintendent of secondary schools.

And I wonder, you have a tough act to follow, Dr.

Faison.

Can we hear what's going on with the secondary schools?

First of all, we intend in September to have ten Magnet Schools programs at the secondary school level.

As Dr.

Olson indicated earlier, they're various kinds of magnets.

And of these ten, one will be a total school magnet that will be the traditional academy at Perry High School.

One will be a school within a school, which will be the health Careers magnet at Chantilly High School.

Seven will be add on magnets, and there will be one that will be a center.

Except for the traditional academy at Perry, part time enrollment will be possible and all of the magnets to be offered at the secondary school level at only one of them, the center for the Creative and Performing Arts that we plan to establish at the Baxter School building, will parttime be the only kind of enrollment available.

I'd like to speak just briefly about the various magnets and their location.

The first two that I'd like to mention are the Business and Management Magnets and the Engineering Architecture Magnet, both of which will be offered as an add on magnets at the Westinghouse High School, which is located in the east end of the city.

The next that I'd like to mention is the computer science option, a magnet that will be available for students in grades 11 and 12 offered at Brashear High School, which happens to be the newest of our 12 high schools in the city.

The next that I'd like to mention is one I mentioned earlier, our only magnet that will be a school within a school that will be the health careers magnet to be offered at Schenley High School, and that will be open to students in grades nine and ten.

Beginning this September.

Two of our magnets will be offered at South High School.

One of them is a continuation of a magnet that began last September.

The other will be brand new.

The new one will be journalism and publishing, which will be available for grades nine and ten.

The other, which continues into its second year, will be the program on Law and Public Service, which will be available to students in grades nine through 12.

A second of our magnet that continues into its second year this fall will be the junior ROTC program that is offered at Oliver High School.

That program will be available to students, boys and girls in grades nine through 12 at Oliver.

Again this fall at Perry High School.

The school to which I referred earlier as the only one that will be a total secondary school, converted to a magnet, will be the traditional academy at Perry High School.

This is the only one of the secondary school magnets that requires full time enrollment.

In addition to the traditional academy at Perry, there will be an add on magnet called a math science magnet that will be possible to enroll in either on a part time or a full time basis.

But youngsters who enroll in that magnet will be expected to abide by the rules that apply to the traditional academy.

The last one, which I like to refer is the magnet for the creative and performing arts and will be a part time center only.

We hope, however, that this magnet that begins this fall for students in grades 9 through 12 will grow to such proportions that we will eventually need to convert it into a full time magnet.

But our expectation for September is that it will operate only on a part time basis, but will be available for students in grades 9 through 12.

Thank you very much.

We should mention to Chris that viewers will have the opportunity to ask questions of our three assistant superintendents, and, we hope, some more details, some more specifics of the particular plans in elementary, middle and secondary schools will come out before we go to phone.

So I've really got to ask this Dr.

Olson, Dr.

Walker, the plans and their elaborate that you've obviously done to put a lot of work into this Magnet School plan.

But I'm wondering when we talk about, for example, a business school, you're going to have a business academy or some special, subjects in business offered at a particular Magnet School.

What's making that particular business course different or business school different than what's going on now?

Do you have, for example, the corporate structure or any outside agencies coming in making, making it really special, making it really something that kids wouldn't normally get?

And we have been working with the corporate community throughout the life of this planning stage.

They have shown a great deal of interest.

They have encouraged us through their support.

And they were quotes.

Who was a chairman of the Magnet School Advisory Committee as the assistant executive director of Allegheny Conference.

He has worked very closely with the corporate foundations and in with the philanthropies to assist us in raising funds and encouraging that we get the best people to put together the best program, a new program, a different program, one that is current with with today's needs, with the skills that the students need to take the labor market.

They have been very helpful to date.

We look forward to that help to continue as we assemble advisory committees in each of our magnets, to look in-depth at course content, to look at the skills the teachers need to have to make these very viable programs for our young people.

You heard the names.

Add on magnets, school within a school and a total school magnet.

Each of these are dependent upon the size, and as they grow, we obviously have more people involved.

More students, more teachers, more people from the community involved in the process.

We think that one of the attractive parts of the Magnet School component is to involve people, and that is from the word go in terms of development of program and its execution talk to us.

And Dr.

Walker, we have a lot of, very patient viewers who have been waiting to talk to you.

So why don't we go to our phones?

Go ahead.

Please.

You're on the air.

Hello.

I'd like to ask Jerry Olson a question.

I'm a senior at Taylor Allderdice, and I don't understand how so much money can be put into this Magnet School program.

While my AP courses, have such low budgets that, various things have had to be cut.

For instance, in my chemistry class, we can't have all the labs that we're supposed to have.

We don't have lab book.

my teacher, goes and buy things with his own pocket money so we confirm.

And I assume that the board would want to enrich education with, the Magnet Schools along with desegregation.

But meanwhile, the programs that are already there that have those students that want, you know, to learn they can't.

Okay, it's an excellent question.

And I think it's two pronged.

First of all, how much are these magnets going to cost and to why are we putting money into them.

And when when the allegation is that we simply aren't putting the resources into the programs we have?

The AP courses that she's speaking of, are funded, out of our taxpayers dollars.

There's no reason why, teachers are putting their own materials into it.

These need to be ordered on, on a sequenced, period of time.

And we certainly have resources in the school district to provide the materials and supplies needed to do a job in all of those programs.

As it relates to the magnets themselves, we're going to spend, between $200,000 and $300,000 in the development of these programs that we were just speaking of.

We're probably going to spend another half million dollars in, in the materials that will go into them new textbooks, new materials, new curricular activities, and probably another $250,000 in this in the in renovating the facilities, getting them ready to operate next fall.

But there is no reason why the existing programs should not and cannot continue at a, at a well staffed and to have adequate materials with which to work.

That certainly is not the intent at any one we cheated to put these programs into place.

Thank you Dr.

Olson.

Go ahead please.

You're on the air.

Yes.

My son is in Carmalt School which is already a Magnet School.

We are one of the most racially balanced, not only pupil wide.

Good by clerical staff wise, and we had understood up until a couple weeks ago that things would remain the same there since we were already an existing Magnet School.

All of a sudden they say, well, some of the children belong in the neighborhood to go to Carmalt.

The percentage of them is going to be sent out of the area to another school.

If the purpose of American school is to integrate the school and we're already integrated, why would they change things around for us?

Well, again, it's another good question, and I think that point needs to be clarified.

The board did establish a set of 25 guidelines that they gave the staff back in February to work out the Magnet School plan.

One of those is guideline number 12, which really establishes that any student who is presently enrolled in a school that will become a full time magnet, such as the open classroom magnet at Carmalt, will be permitted to remain there if they want to remain next year.

The I think the reason for that is obvious.

They have built allegiance to that school.

They want to remain.

And you say, well, that isn't going to help you with the racial balance.

We understand that, and we are going to attempt to enhance the racial balance on a 50 50 basis as we bring in an entering class at the first grade.

But the children that have been there will remain, regardless of the racial balance, beginning next fall.

Now, fortunately, at Carmalt, it is racially balanced.

And, but as it grows, we are going to make certain that at Carmalt and each of the other, open classroom schools, each of the traditional academies that will be full time magnets, they will be racially balanced through every grade.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

Please.

You're on the line.

Yes.

I have a question for Dr.

Olson.

I'd like to know, will special education students, including the EMR students, be able to attend the magnet program?

Yes.

They will.

We have made provisions for special education students, regardless of their area of, of disability, to apply to any one of the magnets.

And, of course, we will.

We will take here the recommendations of the teacher of the principal.

We will look at the, at the background of the student and where appropriate, the student will, enter a Magnet School program.

They are not being left out.

Before we go to another phone call, I'd like to remind our studio audience that if you so choose to ask a question, please feel free to do so and approach the podium and you will be recognized.

Or make a comment or make a call about principals.

And we've got other we have some real heavies.

And we should do.

Let's go to the telephone.

Go ahead please.

You're on the air.

Right?

I would like to talk a little bit about the bussing situation.

When the gentleman was here from Milwaukee, he mentioned that the cost of bussing in Milwaukee was between 9 and $12 million.

And he also stated when when he made that statement that they had appealed to their own state legislature out there for funding for that bussing.

Now, Dr.

Olson, how much do you expect bussing to cost in the city of Pittsburgh?

And where is the money going to come from?

Have you contacted the state legislature to do the same thing that they did for Milwaukee and their state?

Okay.

Three questions.

First of all, you should understand that we are presently bussing between 18 and 19,000 of our own students at a cost of 5 to $6 million a year.

If, in fact, we get a very positive sound response to our Magnet School program for next fall, and we have about 4000 students moving, to do that, we're probably looking at another $800,000 for the remainder of 79, and probably an additional $2 million over the course of an entire year.

And yes, we have asked our, our legislators, to, to consider, cost increase.

I do know that Milwaukee has virtually 100% of their, transportation paid for at the present time.

Ours is like 20%, and we have a long way to go.

But they are interested in the problem.

They say they are willing to help us with that.

And there have even been some subsidy bills proposed that would have, in fact, boosted that to 50%.

They haven't passed.

They are aware of the problem and that is our legislators.

They are also, aware that of the tuition basis whereby I don't know if they in Milwaukee, they have an arrangement whereby tuition is paid for the sending school, if it's outside the school district, as well as, for to the school district of Milwaukee.

And we have had, good receptivity, to that proposal to our legislators as well.

So we are working on both of those fronts.

Go ahead please.

Oh, yes.

I would like to ask Dr.

Will Green, two questions.

One, if he could be a little more, specific as far as what, are the board's intentions for the middle school and also will, Gladstone, school for the Creative Performing Arts and still be considered a middle school or will it come under an elementary?

A very fine question.

So I'm glad you asked that.

It gives me an opportunity to tell about the, magnets in the middle schools.

I'll start with the Gladstone one, since you refer to that one.

Gladstone will be under the direction of the Department of Middle Schools.

But as I said earlier, it's for all students in those grade levels, regardless of what school they're in.

And in fact, the Gladstone is going to be very unique.

We'll have a new opportunity here because that program will start at grade four.

So that's 4 or 5, 6, 7, and 8.

It's, sort of a new thing for the Department of Middle Schools for grades four and five.

But we can handle that.

And even though it's under our direction, it will be for everyone in the system in those grades.

Let's see, what was the other question?

I really cut the the, fella off, so, Oh, you did cut him off.

All right.

I was always thinking of the next call.

Go on.

There's a traditional academy that will be at, Mcnocker, and I don't have to elaborate on that.

It'll be the same style, if not identical to those in the elementary and the secondary.

So it's a it's a condition of style and homework and all of that.

So that will be at Mcnocker.

Then we have a very exciting option that we think will be, that will be available.

And we think it's going to be very exciting.

And that's the, Classical Academy, which will be a school within a school at Rising Star.

And that's going to be, a real unique opportunity, I think, for people who are interested in, well, studying history.

And so forth, the past, the present and the future.

And they're going to do such things as study foreign foreign languages, Chinese and Russian, which you don't have going to be a lot of good things.

They are a futuristic in nature.

So those are the options that we'll have in the department and middle schools.

And I really did forget the other question there.

Well, perhaps we could ask the gentleman to call back, since we're all terribly forgetful here.

Thank you, Dr.

Green.

Go ahead please.

You're on the air.

Yes, I just out there, asking a question and he never answered me.

things could be ordered.

But if the money's not there, if the teacher is given a very small budget and can only order so much, then what's the teacher supposed to do?

Well, certainly that problem can only be resolved at Allderdice High School, where you are a student.

In working out that arrangement.

I'm sure with Mr.

Fisher, with doctor Faison, I think that we don't they don't have the money from the board.

The money is there.

The money is there to provide the equipment and the materials you need for a viable program.

In AP chemistry or physics or whatever you're speaking up.

Go ahead please.

Yeah.

Someone in the, a ninth grader, Westinghouse.

I wouldn't know what we're going to do with that.

Was there when they closed down with the, Well, maybe, you can talk about this to Dr.

Walker, but there's no intention at the present time that Westinghouse High School will close.

We do have a a feeder plan into Westinghouse.

Certainly it is.

It is not, the same student body that it was one time we hope to encourage other students to participate at Westinghouse.

And the magnets that were referred to in the business management area in the engineering architecture area, the ninth grade student, at Westinghouse, will continue in the in the program of studies.

It's there.

We hope that we will have enough students coming in in the, in the scholars area that we will be able to, reenact a scholars program there.

And there is no intention at this time that, that Westinghouse will close as a high school.

Westinghouse.

This is a big bone of contention, it seems there there's been a lot of controversy surrounding that particular high school.

Now, the program that is going into Westinghouse as part of this Magnet School plan is, again, Dr.

Walker, Dr.

Olson, what is specifically in September going to happen to Westinghouse High School?

Well, as we have it, designed you have your, business management and engineering architecture, along, of course, with the regular school itself.

And, I think for clarification, many people are under the impression, that, Westinghouse is going to open as a traditional magnet as it once had been proposed.

That no longer is the case.

It is now going to be a regular high school, of course, with the magnet, as I just mentioned.

Add it to it.

Now it's up to us, of course, in the, district to make it attractive.

And, let me tell you, it takes a lot of attractiveness in this particular case to do so because, traditionally, when you do have a, a predominantly minority school, throughout the entire United States, it takes a lot of effort to make that school attractive to the majority.

And in our case, it's quite a challenge.

But I think we have to accept that challenge and make it work.

Go ahead.

Please.

You're on the air.

Hello?

Yes.

My question is addressed to Dr.

Olson, and I'm interested in in knowing whether or not, any consideration has been given to, let's say for the time being, for getting, integrating the schools and 10th through to, immigrate 10th through 12th and, integrating and, and K through eight because integration, I think could be achieved better in the lower grades than in the upper grades.

Well, and provide some sort of an incentive.

I don't know whether it would be some sort of tuition assistance to those who are planning to go to college, or some incentive to those kids who would voluntarily integrate at the upper level.

Well, you heard earlier, Dr.

Green, speak of the 534 plan that was the plan of record of 1973 that the board had with the commission.

We we have made some successes at the middle school.

I think many people believe that it must begin very early in the educational sequence.

That is the integration of students, the removal of students from racial isolation and participation with students of another race.

I personally believe that I and I think that we propose to the board one of the ways of accomplishing that through the establishment of subject matter centers.

They are to go online next year.

In 1980.

I think in answer to the question that we need to work at the desegregation of the system and at improving the educational opportunities throughout the entire system, at all grade levels.

And I think we can do that if we get a positive response to the magnets, because, as you have just heard, they are in all grade levels in elementary, middle and secondary and quite widely distributed across the entire system.

Go ahead please.

Yes.

I would like to direct my question to Dr.

Olson.

I would like to know if a student, to, go to a magnet and he feels that they can't handle the magnet.

How long does he have to stay there before he can transfer to another class?

It's an excellent question.

And certainly, I'm sure on the minds of many students we, ask on the application, that is made by the parent or the student that they make this commitment for a year.

We feel it's going to take that long for them to get adjusted, to become a part of the program.

Now, obviously, we are in many of the courses we're going to have rather stringent requirements and expectations of the students and the parents.

But, and they may or may not, fulfill the contract that they make in certain of our magnets.

But the intent is that they give it a year and we give them a year to adjust to these programs.

Before we return to the phones.

Let me remind our studio audience, I see a lot of people writing that.

If you want to ask a question, please approach the podium.

Go ahead.

Please.

You're on the air.

Yes.

I would like to know what the Magnet School system would do for the poor.

It sounds to me that the Magnet School system is taking care of the moneyed interests in both the black and white race, and I would like to know why the entire panel feels that the poor black child growing up with a parent who never completed high school, who was on welfare and has been on welfare, what would motivate that child to pay for such a special thing as the Magnet Schools have to offer?

I would like to know what the magnet school system has to do for the poor.

I hope the staff would feel free to to chime in on this, because education is a very complicated business.

It is not an exact science, and I and I really don't think I understand this is not an exact science and I am comparing the money to interests to the poor.

I understand that you are going to write off the poor and in the on the premise that it is not an exact science.

I think that's unacceptable.

Well, if you give me a chance to elaborate on that.

Just a minute.

Yeah.

I don't think that, that that any specific program, will accommodate, all poor children or all disadvantaged program.

I think it's incumbent upon a school district to provide a wide range of programs that can serve the needs of both the poor and and the more affluent in our society.

And it seems to me that that's what the school district is doing.

It's going to depend upon, well, students that are that are knowledgeable about the offerings, parents that have an interest in serving the needs of their children, and then making the option that will allow them to, to move, into one of those programs.

Are you satisfied, sir?

No.

I would like to hear the opinion of the blacks on the panel.

And I would like to them to consider the word for Dr.

Green.

Right.

Being an authority on poor because I grew up poor, I think I could react to this.

I grew up in the Hill district.

I can't find anywhere here where there is any discrimination against the poor.

I can't see where in a traditional academy a poor person can't behave.

Yeah, I know people say poor people can't behave, but that's not the truth.

There are plenty of poor people who do behave.

And if so, and they like to study, there's a good option.

Nothing wrong with it.

Creative and performing arts.

You don't have to be rich to be able to sing.

In fact, I know a lot of poor people.

Some of my friends today sing like crazy.

Some of them gone to New York, and now they're rich.

So you can sing, you can dance, you can be in, television, speak.

So that's that's fine.

You can go there if you're poor classical academy.

Yeah.

The first thing, because of the way it sounded, people said, is that for scholars.

And sometimes we say there may be more rich scholars and poor scholars, and they may be something to that.

But the classical Academy is not for scholars.

It's for people poor or rich who think that they want to learn about the future.

And the poor are going to live a long time, just like the rich.

And if they want to know what's going to happen in ecology, they can go to this because there's no criteria that says you can't come in.

Great for getting to perhaps what may be the crux of that gentleman's question, do the Magnet Schools, do you think, by their very existence and what they offer, perhaps intimidate somehow the poorest students, black and white?

Oh, no, that's no.

There's a good thing.

This is why you need publicity.

The programs himself don't discriminate, discriminate against the poor at all.

What we have to do is let the people know, make them hear what's out there, and then encourage them to opt.

Go get them.

If we have to go to the community and tell them about it, there is a problem.

And some people who are poor perhaps are either trying to get their bread and meat together and, aren't listening or perhaps won't act fast enough.

So we have to let them know.

Get your applications in, you know, so that they don't get left behind.

There is some element of that.

So we we realize that and we're going to have to publicize it and have the people out there.

But Chris, I would just like to say, too, that the education system has not always responded as quickly and as swiftly and as positively to to talk about, to, to provide the opportunities for the students that are there, as we should have.

I think I hope we can do this better in the Magnet School programs that were offered.

I think, you know, a little earlier when I start to phase out.

Yes, yes.

You're looking eager.

Yes.

You're right, prolonging this a great deal.

I just like to say that we did have two magnet programs that we started last fall, and I don't think anyone can judge the response to those programs as being related to any one group.

It was rather universal, the appeal.

And I think there is any disadvantage that the less advantaged in our community has.

It would only be my way of having access to information.

I don't think there's any difference in the appeal of the programs.

Thank you.

Go ahead please.

You're on the air.

Hello.

I like to direct my question to Dr.

Olson First, I'd like to congratulate you and your board on the work that you've done on this program that you have put together, and looking at it and listening to it.

I think it's a beautiful opportunity for students here in Pittsburgh.

But I'm wondering, what are you doing when this program doesn't work?

Well, first of all, let's look at it optimistically and positively.

I believe it is educationally sound.

It is going to take the positive response, as I have said, on the part of students and parents support of the entire community, the business community, the corporate community, city government to be behind this program.

Will it do all of the desegregation for the system that is expected?

Certainly, the movement of 4000 students that we propose as an optimum for this year will not do that.

But as we make reassignments, as we move students in the racially balanced schools where the school serves as a new as a new function, we can begin to move toward a desegregated system.

And as new magnets come on line in 1980 and as the special subject matter centers as they are now proposed, come on in line in 1980.

I think there are components of the plan that are very workable, and I don't think that desegregating the system is going to be once done and done forever.

It's going to be a constant, continuous kind of a reexamination that we look at, that we make new proposals, but that we make constant progress in.

And the key question is when you stop making progress, what are you going to do?

And I hope with this program, we have renewed that effort in in the progress of educational opportunities and the progress of desegregating the school system.

And, Dr.

Olson, you're talking about beginning to move toward desegregation.

The idea of desegregation has been with us, only the idea for the past ten years since the court got into the picture.

You have a lot on the line of the Magnet Schools.

Don't work that we do.

And we're not starting at base zero.

As Dr.

Walker has said, we have done things over the years that have been productive, productive.

We have had an open enrollment plan since 1963.

We have moved toward middle schools.

We've put over $100 million in new buildings and renovations in the last ten years into our educational plans.

We do have a lot on the line.

And it is going to take a positive response, or, in fact, we are going to be faced with some different kind of arrangement to desegregate the schools, I think, with a positive response, with additional things that come on the line.

In the next couple of years, we we simply can resolve that problem.

We have a question from our studio audience.

Go ahead please.

Good evening, Dr.

Olson.

I'm Christa, writes a history teacher at John I. Brashear High School.

Brashear High school has been successfully integrated over the last three years due to a lot of work on the part of students, parents, as well as the faculty.

They have proven that integration can work despite a lot of negative response and dire, opinions to the contrary at the beginning of the school, and it's due to a great degree because the facilities provide a substantive curriculum and substantive extra curricular activities.

Could you describe for the new programs for integration, plans during this summer to aid students in adjusting to the new facilities, the new faculty and the new students that they will have to relate to in the fall.

In other words, will they have to go cold turkey in the fall, or will there be adjustment over the summer?

I think your question is very appropriate because as we opened Brashear, we spent many, many hours and many dollars in orienting students and preparing staff in developing curriculum that was appropriate for that school facility.

We certainly intend to do that for each of the 17 magnets that will be, opened this fall, we we will be establishing advisory committees.

We will be working with teachers, with principals in the development of the curriculum.

There are in-service workshops planned.

We have been working with the Race and Desegregation Center at the University of Pittsburgh, and there are a wide variety of of in-service curriculum involvement, activities for the staff and the students.

And I think one of the key things at Brashear was the heavy student involvement that we had very early in the program.

Students need to be a part of each of these magnets.

They need to be a very vital part of it.

These are all planned, and I and I can't say anything more about that except the moneys are allocated.

The people have said they will help us and we're ready to go.

Thank you.

Let's go to the phones again.

Go ahead please.

Yes.

I like to ask Mr.

Olson a question.

Please.

Mr.

Olson, are you going to lengthen the school day?

With all the respect, I'm sorry.

Did you say, are you going to lengthen the school day?

Yes or no?

We have no plans at the present time to lengthen it.

And I have another question.

Are you going to discriminate against kids because the whole magnet programs based on on this one is based on race, that if a black kid wants to go to this subject matters.

Too many blacks applying for that course, then they won't be able to get in it in the same way for the whites.

We are going to to balance the schools racially.

At the entering grade this first year.

And of course, as that school or that program grows over a number of years, then each grade will be racially balanced.

I hope that we have to face that problem, whereby we have so many students who want to come in to the program that we have to establish a new section.

We're ready and willing to do that.

I don't want to discriminate against anybody.

Go ahead.

Please.

I would like to question Dr Walker on the mic.

The plan, the project path.

Go ahead.

Sir, I would like to question Dr.

Walker on the Magnet plan and project path.

The floor is yours.

What do you think about it?

What do you think?

Is that what is probably.

Okay.

We haven't heard that.

Basically, in the, I'll try to taking one at a time.

And the aspect of the Magnet Sch Magnet Schools themselves are great educational tools.

An aspect of, desegregation, which I think you're probably addressing yourself, too.

They can be very, very successful if the resources are put in the right places.

And also, we must use the big resources just mentioned, changing attitudes.

We must have attitude adjustment, which bring about behavioral adjustment.

We have to get to the fact that people must at least accept the fact that disaggregation is here.

We will have to desegregate our schools and the aspect of this area getting our schools.

We will have to prepare ourselves for it.

The in services mentioned, people, going to have to get themselves in the right frame of mind to cooperate with the school system, to cooperate with the various leadership aspects in the community that have endorsed the aspect of desegregation, and realize, again, that desegregation is here and we must comply, whether we do it now or whether we, do it, eventually we will have to, in my opinion, desegregate the schools and Magnet Schools is one aspect of doing that.

Now, again, whether or not they'll be successful will depend upon how well we in-service ourselves, how well the people, have confidence in the Pittsburgh school system and join hand in hand with the system in order to bring it about.

And the schools cannot do it alone, where the society has a tendency to place the total pressure of desegregation socialization.

Just about anything you can name and deal with students on the schools.

We have to have the cooperation of the parents, the community, the when I say the community, I mean all elements of the community to bring this thing about.

And believe me, there's a lot at stake.

We're talking about one of the greatest systems in, public, and not public.

Excuse me, if I may.

That's education.

Excuse me for interrupting.

We only have a few seconds left.

We have time for one quick call and one quick answer.

Gentlemen, go ahead please.

If your child goes to school in, but let's say next to the period where it's going to be a business school and they want an academic course, but they're going to be best when they live next door to a school.

They're going to have to be the best away.

And how can you call that voluntary bussing when you want your child to go to the school next door?

And yet that school is only for business, and they want the academic education.

Well, certainly Perry isn't only for business in that arrangement.

Was when we were clustering our high schools.

That is not in the present plan.

Perry will become a traditional academy, and any parent or student who wants the traditional kind of a program should enroll at Perry.

If not, then they are free to enroll in any other high school in the city.

You know, the frustrating thing about this, Chris, is we're both trained as a journalist.

I have so many questions I want to ask.

I think I could have just brought all of you in.

That's been my private audience to answer my questions about desegregation.

Well, we're just about an expert.

Fortunately, time has again run out too quickly.

But don't panic.

I know there are a number of unanswered questions out there.

You're.

But you're really going to get the opportunity to get them answered tomorrow night.

Yeah.

In fact, Dr.

Olson, Dr.

Walker and the assistant superintendents will all be back with us tomorrow night live at 7:00 pm, and they'll be bringing with them about 15 more of their administrative stuff.

And we're going to put those staff people on hotlines.

So in addition to Dr.

Olson and Dr.

Walker, you'll be able to call other knowledgeable school administrators and talk to them at length about what's going to happen as proposed to your child in September.

And it won't stop there either.

If your calls are to the magnitude we expect they're going to be, or even stay here in studio tomorrow night after the program has gone off the air at 8 p.m.

and continue to answer your questions.

But for right now, we must go for Chris Gaul and WQED local programing.

I'm Don Marbury.

Good night.