Hello everyone and welcome.

Thank you so much for being here with us tonight.

We are back at Potomac Station Coffee House and we have a great show coming your way.

But first I'm Valerie and that's David.

And this is our Gen X Pittsburgh Podcast.

Tonight's guest.

Oh my gosh I am so excited for this.

Its a big deal.

I know we have Jen Wertz, a original member of Rusted Root.

Holy moly.

I can't believe she said yes.

As big as it gets right.

I know, I know, Pittsburgh royalty.

Yeah.

90s royalty definitely.

Yeah.

For sure.

Yeah.

You know, Kim and I were going through some old videotapes.

Videotapes?

We have a VCR still, and we were going through old videotapes of college.

Kim documented, apparently like every second of her life.

And apparently every person ever met.

My wife loves her because they all spoke on it.

But we went to a dance becaus that's what you did in the 90s.

And Rusted Root was on as we walked into the room.

Rusted Root was on.

Definitely.

That speaks to how big this band was, right?

Yeah, a college danc and they're playing Rusted Root, I love it.

I was so intimidated by you, Jen, back in the day because you were, like the coolest girl.

You were in a band and you were so pretty.

I was like, oh my God, there's Jen and I get so shy around you, but I'm so glad that you're here tonight.

Yeah, I mean, it is remarkable when you think about it in 91, right?

Like The Rusted Root was so accessible that they were selling cassettes at at the Beehive.

Right I remember they had a long box.

You remember those?

They would have long boxes of cassettes.

I think they held 30 in a box.

Right.

And they were selling the on the counter of the Beehive.

And then all of a sudden they were on like commercials for Tide and they movies and playing Search Festival.

I saw them at the search festival with King Crimson, you know, and Lenny Kravitz, I think.

Or I mean, it was just Blues Traveler, right?

Like, I mean, they were as big as you could get, yet they hung out at the Beehive.

That's that's right.

And so Jen's going to tell u all about that exciting story.

Yeah.

Can't wait.

Yeah.

And we'll get get her up here and we'll get going in just a minute.

Sounds great.

You ready?

Or take a sponsor break?

We'll be right back.

Welcome back to GXP.

Thank you for joining us today.

I'm happy to be here.

We're thrilled to have you.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I don't know what's even how to start this.

I'm so overwhelmed and excited that you're here, Jen.

I met you when?

When I was writing the Beehive book.

And you were gracious enough to do some interview about your time at the Beehive.

But for those who don't know, can you talk about your background, how you got to the Southside?

Let's start there.

How you got to the Southside.

How you got into music.

Let's.

Yeah, okay.

I grew up in Greensburg, like right toward the side of Mount Pleasant which is suburban slash rural.

And when was 18 years old, my best friend and I, the day I turned 18 by the way, on my 18th birthday, we drove to Los Angeles and we we had an apartment that was Rudolp Valentinos old house on the lot And it was all very magica how we got the place and stuff.

So I lived there for a year and a half, but it wasn't for me.

I don't know if you spent much time in Los Angeles, but it just wasn't for me.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I know exactly, especially in 1987.

Los Angeles was a trip.

Yeah, I mean, it was pre-Olympics, and it was very strange out there.

I was here in the early 90s, and it was it was like very like Gen X very like gangster, very coming up, you know what I mean?

But I know, I know, yeah.

It has a different sort of social sensibility.

Yeah.

Right.

In Los Angeles than Pittsburgh.

And I had spent a lot of time running around seeing bands in Pittsburgh when I was in high school.

So I came back to Pittsburgh, and soon enough, I lived in Uptown for a minute and then moved in 88, I was living at 14th and Carson Street.

Yeah, second floor across from Lando's Pharmacy, which became the Beehive a few years later.

So I lived ther with my boyfriend, who came back from Los Angeles to check out the city, and he became a bike messenger at Triangle.

And then so I got I got into that Triangle messenger crowd, which at that time was like on 12th Street between like an old man bar and an old man barber shop.

Yeah.

So and Southside itself was just a completely different animal before the Beehive.

Right.

It was you would you would see sort of like old steelworkers standing around people that were like out of jobs.

It was a shorter span of blocks, but there were just as many blocks per capit or just as many bars per capita.

Yeah.

And so there wasn't a lot to do except go to bars back then.

So.

And you felt safe there, like you could walk home at, like, midnight, one in the morning and there was nobody else.

And we often did on a bike, on a skateboard or walking.

And in 88, 89, when I was living there, I was friends with like the Baba Club, who were these kids making t shirts on Carson Street?

I moved down to 22nd and Kerry Way.

I lived at 95 and then 97 over the years and there were just like such strange people there.

My cat got stolen twice Like properly, properly stolen.

Oh, my.

And like, absconded away with.

And then like when, when the first time that I got stolen, I lived at 95 and my cat was beautiful.

She was like a main coon.

And he was in the window.

And this woman took the cat and took it down the alley and took it in her house with her daughter.

And, you know, back then there were no phones, there was no internet.

So you would actually take out an ad in the penny saver.

And I called the Penny saver lost Cat.

Oh my God, Carrie Way.

And then, you know, the next Tuesday, the penny saver came out and the ad was in there and my phone started ringing off the hook.

But the first call was, hey, come on down the alley, they got your cat in it.

And I said, oh my God.

She said, don't act like you know me.

So this is my Pittsburgh accent.

It's not really.

It's a very, very impressive.

So I go creeping down Carrie way.

This is 89.

I'm creeping down Carrie way And this older woman walks by me and she says they got him right there in that house.

And she like was gestures to the house.

So I went to the door and I knocked on it and sure enough, my cat like, runs up, jumps in my arms.

They're denying this.

My cat, they didn't steal it.

Then I found ou the woman that called in, like, you know, ratted them out was her mother.

Oh, wow.

And this was just a normal Southside day.

Yeah, this was just like.

That's what sounds like I was like.

And then he got stolen again by Mr.

Christmas who lived on 22nd Street.

Mr.

Christmas was Mr.

Christma because his house was decked out in Christmas all the time.

But when like I saw my cat up in his attic in the window, we knocked on the door, my friend page and I, and we went inside and the house was decked out like it was July.

There was Santa Clauses lights, tinsel.

And he went up and he said, there's no cat in here.

We went up to the attic and he had like, food and water for him up there.

Oh my God.

So that's kind of like what Southside was like.

But you, like, ride your beach cruiser around.

Everybody knew everybody.

Bill Patterson would, like, be on his bike in the alley, you know.

Oh, the good old days.

So yeah, it was a free time.

It was like a very free time.

And then, of course, the Beehive came in, and that' when I became a bike messenger as wel and got to know John Beinecke.

And he knew Liz Berlin.

And then, then we were invite to go and photograph the band.

Were you a photographer?

We were both just I think he finished at the Art Institute and I, I like, dabbled for a period of time there before they secretly told us that we were about to be taken over by computers and that our education would be worthless.

There was a mass exodus out of the Art Institute, and anyway, we went and we photographed the band, and we had such a great tim and great chemistry with them.

It was just a matter of weeks before Michael called and asked Joh and I to come down and meet him at this strip district rehearsal space, and and we went down there and I, John played guitar, drums, saxophone, harmonica.

You know, I just played harmonica sometimes, but I had like, sat with them, you know, hanging out with Michael sometimes just drinking beers.

And I pull out the harmonica and sing a couple Stones songs or something.

And he invited us down there, and he invited John to join the band, and everyone was like, oh, wow, this is great news.

This is perfect for you.

And then I was like, okay, see you later.

And I was like, no, actually I was thinking that you should also join the band.

And I honestly was like, for what?

Like to play harmonica?

Like, what are you.

And I said, I don't, I don't really think I'm a musician.

And he said, no, you you are, you will be.

And he actually looked m in the eyes and said, trust me.

Oh my God.

And I said, okay, I will.

And then sure enough, I was like, you know, a natural.

That's awesome.

So I found it to be a very natural thing for me.

And how long was that before you did like the it wasn't Cruel Sun.

What's the name of the first?

Actually, it was Cruel Sun.

That was the first casette.

Yeah, yeah.

And we recorded Cruel Sun in the North Side at Audiomation.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think that was around 91 and we took that on tour with us.

We took it to every show.

It was a self-produced, self manufactured record.

We got some money from our folks and made the record, and we took it everywher and we sold 20,000 copies.

Wow.

Which in 1990 was, you know.

Wow.

Right.

I don't think people realize how hard that was.

You were selling it like out of your trunk at shows.

I mean, it was point of purchase, and at that time, there was still this i this is my one of my pet peeves.

So we can talk about Pittsburgh United Musicians Alliance later.

Yes.

But I started an advocacy group because back then there was physical product.

Right?

When you saw abandoned, you loved that band.

You would go to their merch table and buy their record and they would put money in their gas tank.

And so that's what we did.

And that's one of the reason that we got a lot of attention from record labels.

They were like, well, who are these kids in Pittsburgh playing tribal rock, right?

Like what's going on there?

It was kind of Talking Heads, the kind of African, some Middle Eastern energy in the music, and people just couldn' believe we were from Pittsburgh.

You're right.

So it was an exciting and wild time.

Yeah.

Well, it was so different from everything, not just the scen that was developing nationally, which was sort of grunge and alternative, but Pittsburgh too, which ha its own kind of like coffeehouse sort of scene.

Yeah.

You were so different.

Yeah, we were weird, too, because we were all in.

There was an element of playing with Rusted Root, where everybody was giving 100%, and it could come across maybe a little cringey, I think, but we didn't care.

Yeah.

And and whenever we like, took it out of town and it started to get momentum.

It was like a sensation to people.

Yeah.

To see six and then seven individuals, every single person moving every single person.

But we were acting as like a, you know, a unit.

And so there was like a thing happening.

Yeah.

Did it just happen naturally?

Like, you guys just got up there and it just happened, or was it somethin you guys really had to work out?

Well we rehearsed four nights a week for hours a night, and that was uncommon.

And it's still uncommon.

Yeah.

We had like, some people in the band had a really strong work ethic about it.

But we had one mind of we kne we were doing something special.

Michae is an extraordinary songwriter, a totally unique singer, and he was bringing in this music and we, you know, we would just kind of converge into the music and it would turn into something way bigger.

It happened every time, all the time.

And it was organic.

But the rise was kind of meteoric as well.

In terms of bands.

We really just went out into concentric touring circles regionally and by the time like so we would go to say Jamestow or Morgantown, 10 or 15 people.

When we went back, there were 100 people.

When we went back, there were 500 people.

So it was a lot of word of mouth and the holy mixtape.

People were putting us on mixtapes.

There were mixtapes going all around like, you know, I've got my new favorite bands on here.

And we were on everybody's mixtape.

So yeah.

And it was so quick.

I mean, you went you didn't d what a lot of bands do, right?

Which is sort of self-release and then you end up on an indie and then you end up on a major, you know, you went from sort of independent.

I know you did some stuf with Blue Duck, I think.

Right.

But but then.

Yeah.

Bree Freeman Yeah.

But then right away you were I mean, signed to Universal.

Well, Bree Freeman actually took Cruel Sun the first one, and he was our distributor.

And so he was acting as the label in that way, doing promotion for and and distributing it.

And he was doing great work with that in the city.

But yeah, then w got picked up by Mercury Records at that time, which is unde the umbrella of Universal Music.

And I mean, it became it was Mercury.

Then it became Island Def Jam, right?

Well, PolyGram, Island Def Jam and now it's it's it's Universal.

I think I don't know if it's even Island Def Jam anymore.

But but I mean Universal's the biggest record label, at least for a long time in the world.

Right.

They kept buying all these labels.

Yeah, they're all conglomerated.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I mean, if you follow that history, it's it's interesting because you can sort of see the history of music jus by following the record labels.

Sure.

And for you, I mean, not only did that giv you distribution for your music, it also gave you some other, I'm assuming, to explain it to me, the opportunity to for these big tours, for your music to be licensed in movies and commercials, it seemed like you were everywhere for a while.

Yeah.

So whenever you in the 1990s whenever you got a record deal, and pretty much up until around 2005 to 2007, you could still get a good old fashioned record deal.

And in short, they're terrible loans with terrible rates and they're very predatory.

But the the thing that was offered to you was money to take a chance on a dream, to take a chance on something that was your passion.

And so when you got a record deal, there would usually be an industry structure.

So our manager is th first person who came to see us and wanted to sign us to the management firm.

Then they set you up with an accountant, a lawyer.

Yeah, it's a whole constellation.

And then you get the the label and they all kind of know each other.

There's channels there.

So when you make your money, it goes through a whole ecosystem before it gets to you.

And everybody takes a piece on the way.

I mean, it's true.

Was there any money by the.

Oh, I'm so sorry.

I was just wondering, by the time it gets to you, is there any money?

Yeah.

There's money if you're successful.

Yeah.

If you're not successful, there's not that much money.

And of course, now there's hardly any money.

Because musicians are paid for streaming.

They're paid a fraction of a penny per stream.

And so back then, people used to have to buy something to listen to your music.

Right now they just add you to a playlist and nobody gets paid except for the top, top, top.

Yeah.

And the billionaires who own the platforms and the record labels.

Right.

So I sound so cynical.

I've been at this a long tim and so I know a lot about it so.

What did success feel like as a Gen Xer?

Because w were young men and that was like we were very young.

I mean, we signed those papers.

We were like 21 years old, which is my son's age now.

And when I think back on that, I can't believe that somebody let us sign papers to like you know, to contract ourselves to someone for a number of years and in some cases, in one case, perpetuity, in perpetuity.

And we didn't really understand.

But it was the great American rock and roll dream to get a record deal.

And and it was it was so exciting.

You know, we went so they did they woul set you up at the booking agent.

We had Creative Artists Agency and they put us initially the big first tour was the horde Tour hordes or that's what it was.

Yes.

So the hord tour went for a number of years.

That was kind of headed up by Blues Traveler, and the anchor bands were Dave Matthews, Big Head Todd.

A couple other ones.

And when we were out there, it was like there was Sheryl Crow was out there.

We had G Loving Special Sauce and of course, Blues Traveler, and I think some iteration of the Allman Brother might have been on those tours.

That's right.

Yes.

Yeah.

And and it was wonderful.

It was like a big traveling circus.

And you start to live in an insulated bubble.

You know, we had a tour bus and we were used to a pick up truck and a trailer.

And here we were in this big tour bus, and it was very thrilling But it was also exhausting.

And, you know, you learn how there's there's a rhythm and you learn the rhythm, and there's also a language and a joke system that your whole entourag gets kind of like on the, the, you know, it's, you know, one tour would be like the Larry David theme joke tour and everybody would just get into a rhythm.

And so it does its thing.

So I remember you used to carry a suitcase.

I had a little baby suitcase, I still have it, I have two of them.

What was tell everybody what was in your suitcase.

I've been gifted those as well over the years.

So I am a thrifter and Im not a hoarder.

Don't get it twisted.

I'm a thrifter, so I'm very good at thriftin and I have been for a long time.

And I came up with this going to grandma's bag.

It's a little red suitcase and it has a picture of a little girl with her, a little red suitcase and a little doggie and it says, going to grandma's and it's for little kids.

And they would put there like, you know, they're like overnight stuff to go to grandma's.

And I took i and put my harmonicas in there and my shakers and tambourines, and that was my stage bag.

And so it got to be kind of known as my stage bag.

And I would come out on stage and open my bag and put it back on the, you know, but I still have two of those, I have two, and I still use them all the time for gigging.

I love it, I love it.

Yeah.

So I still have those and people have gifted me those over the years because they it's a little bit of a trademark going to grandma's.

Yeah, that's really cool.

And so what was it like?

I mean, once, once you decided to, to no longer be in Rusted Root, what.

That hhad to be a shock to the system.

Right?

Because you're the one o the biggest bands in the world.

At one point you're playing Japan, playing everywhere, right?

And then all of a sudden you're not.

Does that take even when you're taking breaks between tours?

Does that take you a while to reacclimate.

Oh yeah.

So there's like weird stuff.

Social systems.

So when you're in that bubble, that insulated bubble going from town to town, you recognize everywhere you go the people there know who you are.

Yeah.

You don't really have to know anything about anybody if you don't want to.

And so there you have thi breeding ground of narcissism.

And if you aren't vigilant, you can become an [bleep].

Just a straight up [bleep].

You come back to your hometown and you think, you know, you're you're sort of backstage pass doesn't work when you, you know, your mom is suffering at the hospital.

Your backstage pass doesn't work at your sister's wedding.

Right?

And so there's, there's and some people get that in adapt and live life because again, we were 21 we were on the road by 22, 23.

And we were still having our frontal lobes develop on the road.

So, you know, some people kind of got that way and stayed that way.

And, and other people kind of continued to grow up and didn't stunt.

But I actually left Rusted Root twice.

I was thrown out of the band twice.

Oh, wow.

So I it sounds worse than it was.

I sounds like my college career.

The first time I was actually, like, booted out of the band by the lead singer against my will and into everyone's shock.

And that was very painful.

And it was our last show right before I left the band in 1995, was opening for the Grateful Dead at Three Rivers Stadium.

Wow.

And that was my last show for a long time, and I thought it was going to be my last show forever.

Yeah.

And yeah, a very shocking thing to go home after that show.

And the next day they were goin to board the bus to go back on with the Allman Brothers, and I just wasn't.

So I had to rebuild a lot of systems.

And but I had a really weird and interesting opening to my own journey during that time.

Shortly after that, I eventually did go back to the band in 2000.

I was invited back by the same guy that booted me out, and I went back and had a blast for another eight years or so.

And and then he tried t put us out again, me and John.

And we kind of said, like, you know, talk to our lawyers anyway.

Yeah.

So it's a culture shock, but I gratefully it's not the only facet to my identity or it's not really eve that much of my identity at all.

I have a really rich experiential reality, and it has a lot of facets to it.

So it I mean, like i took a minute, but I don't know.

It's hard to explain.

Right?

Well, let's talk about all those other parts of your personality because you've done so much more.

I have.

Yeah.

So a weird journey.

Yeah.

I mean, just on the most basic, the most direct.

I know that you have done some music.

Yeah, right.

And is that something you consider part of your personality?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I am a musician.

It's not the main thing that I do.

So the first time that I left the band in 95, I went on a little retreat.

Shortly after that, I thought, oh I'm going to go to the desert.

I love the southwest.

And I wanted to go there and spend some time.

So I booked a trip to Sedona, Arizona, and it was meant to be a just a a retreat, like a vacation alone.

And I went there and you know, I collected crystals.

I was always a little bit about where I grew up.

It wasn't lik if you ever might see Bigfoot.

It was like when you see Bigfoot, we don't.

We had, like, sightings of all kinds o [bleep] in the Laurel Highlands.

And I was just raised in a certain way.

That I had like a supernatural understanding of things.

But I went to Sedona and I went to have som just general energy work done.

I was drug free.

I was actually sugar free.

It was a macrobiotic, raw vegan So there was no drugs involved.

And I was on the table getting this work done.

And I had a spontaneous spiritual awakening, which is the best way that I ca explain it, is that most human beings are running 24 channels of energy, and I plugged into 48 for some godforsaken reason.

I don't know why that happened to me, but at the time it was absolutely terrifying.

It was absolutely shocking.

It was like being dose with the highest amount of LSD that you could ever have.

Yeah, and it stayed for four years, really.

And so I had what I now know is called a Kundalini awakening, a spontaneous Kundalini awakening.

And since then I've learned so many things about myself.

But it left me clear, cognizant.

And fast forward 20 years, 25 years in 2020.

I had a secondary awakening because I kind of lik blocked it out for many years.

You have to be a parent.

You have to go to the PTA, damn it.

You have to like you have t like, act normal and be in life.

And I got really good at that.

And with the help of some alcohol, some people, addictions, all kinds of [bleep] that people use to buffer themselves from being from their true nature.

And I was experiencing the tru nature of reality all the time.

But it got very exhausting.

And so I kind of went back.

What higher consciousness shows me is called into the density of this reality system.

And I did that consciously.

And so I had my son, just like living normal life, I had all kinds of Joby jobs and I was making art.

I'm a successful mixed media artist.

And you wrote a book and I wrote a book that I haven't published yet because I'm afraid.

And anyways, in 2020, I had a secondary awakening that was not shocking.

Not frightening at all.

It was like the final plu that made everything make sense.

And and I was like living in a sort of an elated state.

Then for a couple of years after, during the pandemic, it was lovely.

Yeah, yeah.

And so now I know how to work with my clear cognizance.

And I am a quantum healer.

So what does that mean?

Quantum healing acknowledges the multidimensional nature of our reality system, and for me, it means that we live in a consensus reality, which is by its nature, we all agree what is real, how matter behaves, how we age, how these systems of the world work and we all consent to this reality.

It's a consensus.

So the majority of people create the world around us, and then you can divest, you can revoke consent.

And that's essentially what happened to me.

I stepped outside of the sort of bounds of normal reality.

And so now I have one foot and one foot out.

And I generally we acknowledg multidimensional reality in the the end goal is to integrate your unconscious parts that are sabotaging you or attacking you, or magnetizing experiences to you that revictimize you.

And so we bring this very gently into the conscious mind.

There's a lot of archetype work.

It's it's basically shamanic in nature.

And this is all came to me in my spontaneous awakenings.

So it's a remembrance of thing that I already knew how to do.

So.

And you have the second floor portal right now I work out of Uptown in James Simons sculpture studio.

I have the second floor there, and it's an event space but I do healing work there.

And yeah, it's pretty wild.

I mean, you know, if you'd asked me what I would be doing when I'm like in my 50s, I would not have said any of the things that I'm doing.

But I'm like very fulfilled.

And like, I feel very authentically truthful about who I am, I love it.

Yeah.

It's beautiful.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

We'll talk to us about what else you said.

You know, there are a bunch of things you do talk about to us, about what else you do now.

So in my journey o being a musician and also just working with energy systems I teach people about awakening.

I teach people to come into their empowerment field is what I call it.

And so when I started to com into my own empowerment field, I started to recogniz the things about the consensus reality that I'm taking part i that I'd rather not consent to.

And some of that has to do with the music industry.

And I just found myself to be a uniquely qualified to speak on it.

And once I start to speak on it, I just a lot of people magnetized into my into my field and wanted to work with me.

So I started an advocacy group called Pittsburgh United Musicians Alliance, and we seek to raise the streaming pay for musicians, as the entire ecosystem is suffering.

So when musicians can't tour regionally, then the venues suffer because they can't pay only top tier artists.

And this is what's happening.

The music industry is shrinking and shrinking.

We've got monopolies o the venue side with the tickets, and you guys know if you ever try to go to a concert recently, recently, it's like a vacation, right?

I got to save up and plan for it.

It's crazy.

But you know, I, I started to talk to United Musicians and Allied Workers.

They're a national group and they have legislation called the Living Wage for Musicians Act that is being presented.

So I, I go to federal lawmakers in Pennsylvania and local lawmakers at city Council, and we talk about what's happening.

We talk about how there is no physical product.

We talk about how it's cultural ambassador problem as well, because you guys were talking earlier about the city of Pittsburgh has an identity, and that I think someone here was reading about, like, what is Pittsburgh known for, right?

And when I was traveling the country in 87, you probably experienced this where you would say, I'm from Pittsburg and people would say, oh, yeah, the pits, you know, the smoky city, the this and that shot and beer town.

And then as we were going aroun playing this, like weird [bleep] music and, you know, like people started saying, where are you from?

And we'd say, we're from Pittsburgh.

And they would go, what?

And then you realized, I it sort of does something to the profile of the city.

When we became very famous, I asked people all the time, when I have my meetings with lawmakers, I say what do you know about Seattle?

And they'll say, rain coffee and Pearl jam, right?

And I say, what about Athens, Georgia?

Yeah.

Okay.

Weird, Southern, B-52s, and REM Minneapolis, Replacements.

Prince.

I mean, when we don't know this because we're in Pittsburgh, but from outside of Pittsburgh, when you say, what do you know about Pittsburgh?

It's like Steelers, Mac Miller, Rusted Root.

Right.

Yeah.

And that is the truth.

And so we're losing our ambassadors that go out from our region and represent the city as a diverse, alive center of not just like arts, like, you know, the museums and which are wonderful and the ballet and the symphony.

But like the people in i backrooms rehearsing and writing music and going out trying to we're losing it, right?

We know these kids can't.

They can't start.

You're right, you're right.

And and so that's that's my advocacy work.

Yeah.

I remember when I used to work for a music distribution company, and I remember that when Pearl Jam and Radiohead first, they were the first really big bands to say we're not going to play into the into the system of a major record, right?

We're gonna be able to do everything on the internet.

And somebody asked the manager of Pearl jam now, anybody can do this, right?

And he said, sure, you just have to be Pearl Jam or Radiohead.

Yeah, right.

And we really have lost that ability.

I think most people don't realize you spend years on the road, right?

Or playing gig after gig after gig.

You built your following, you learn your instrument, you do all this groundwork where you're making 50 bucks a night spli between five people in a band.

Right.

And then and it used to be you make the next step and the next step and the next step, and now there is no opportunity first of all, to even do that.

Travel around in a van, most likely righ where you're making 50 bucks or that's all you ever do right now at $5 a gallon.

It would be very difficult, actually.

And, you know, I work with young musicians.

My son is a young musician, and I se that these kids are suffering.

And sometimes there's different types of musicians.

Some kids take up music in college and they're just like, you know, I'm in a band.

It's great.

And then there are kids who don't go to college because they I mean, it's their calling, right?

And that's going to be your Thom Yorke or your, you know.

Right.

Mac Miller or your Jeff Buckley.

Like, those are people that they can't really do anything else because they're so they're so I feel like it's a calling, you know.

And that's what it was like for us.

I couldn't imagine doing anything else for those years that we went on tour in and wrote those songs and went around and did what we were doing, which was weird and coo and strange and true, you know?

But I just don't see it as much.

Right?

And so we're out there tryin to raise awareness about this.

A fraction of a penny per stream, 25,000 streams of your favorite artists nets them between 47 and $60.

Think about that.

In the 90s up to 2005, if your song was heard 25,000 times, you were on tour.

Man, right?

You were.

You were able to sustain meaningful living as a musician.

25,000 streams.

You got to pay to put the songs up, right?

You're paying and then you're fighting these automatic algorithms that are in the system, and nobody asked for it.

Right.

And there's a whole ecosystem that's being lost now, right?

Because bands can't afford to have big name producers and engineers.

And I mean, there's a trickle that goes down and it's not just affecting, you know, the kid in the bedroom who's playing his guitar.

Don Henley, I know, goes out all the time talking about this other huge names.

I'm not saying they need the money like a little musician, but bu everyone gets affected by this except the record labels.

Except the guy that started Spotify.

Right?

Except Amazon Music.

Well, we do know that, like, so all of these, these rates are arbitrary.

So if you have a record label, your rate is higher, but it's all behind closed doors.

Nobody knows the actual rates.

We barely know our rates.

And they change all the time because it's out of a pool.

So now the pool is being flooded with artificially generated music by the same people who own the platform, wh then push it in the algorithm.

So your royalty pool is diluted.

But this is you have to understand, when I say nobody asked for this, it became the default operating system of the music industry over the course of like seven years.

But nobody negotiated with musicians.

It was like, we're going to give them the absolute least amount.

Sure.

Right, right out of everybody that's going to make money.

The musicians are just you know, and they kind of knew and there wasn' really any champion of musicians the while it was happening.

And and it was sort of a fas and slow thing at the same time.

It was very fast in term of technology, but from inside you just were like, oh this is very convenient, right?

This is so convenient.

And you see that a lot in our world right now, righ in our consensus reality things, things that are very convenient can turn on you very quickly.

Are there?

Jen Wertz in other cities who are working for this as well?

Oh, that's a funny question.

PUMA no, there are you UMAW what do you call them?

Help me out.

Shops like they call them their branches.

Okay.

Sorry.

Okay.

There are UMAW branches in other cities.

There's Philadelphia, there's.

And we just we just passe with city council a resolution.

It's called an at will will of council.

So it's a proclamation on behalf of the city of Pittsburgh and our musicians an our music lovers that we support fair wage for streaming for musicians and the Living Wage for Musicians Act.

And we join Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Detroit.

And I'm missing one, but I forget which one it is.

Oh.

New York okay Sorry, New York, sorry New York.

And so it's growing, but we're jus people are shocked when I tell.

Yeah, definitely.

That's that that, you know, Snoop Dogg was like the first on who went on social media maybe, maybe ten years ago, and he showed his streaming numbers and said, I made like $10,000 from like 30 million streams, and everybody thinks you're so rich.

And it's like, no, we lost all the money, guys.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, but but the streaming services are booming.

Yeah.

That's right.

I remember watching when the industry change and it became these 360 degree deals and things like that.

I remember watching a band signed the contract and it was literally this high.

And the guy in the band said, even if you have the best lawyer in the world, how are you supposed to know what you're signing?

Yeah.

You know, when it's that high, when you're giving away all of your rights to everything?

Yeah, 360 deals.

It's predatory and it's it's unnecessary.

So record record labels used to offer people distribution.

We don't need them for distribution.

Now you really just need the development money, the tour money, the, you know, marketing and promotion.

But everything is already distributed, right?

Right.

You can distribute from your your bedroo as a high school student.

Yeah.

And that's a little bit part of the problem.

But it's I don't blame anybody for wanting to make music.

Right.

Right.

They're the least of the problem for sure.

What is the Gen X Pittsburgh podcast?

Let me take you back.

Remember when coffee was king and pizza bagels ruled on the corner of 14th and Carson at the Beehive?

Or how about that tim you stumble upon art all night?

How cool is that?

Or when your evening started instead of ended at 10 p.m.?

Yeah, we miss those days too.

So we're bringing them back one Gen-X story at a time.

Joining David Rullo and I, Valerie Christofel, as we sit down with the movers and shakers, the artists and the voices who helped shape Pittsburgh back in the early 90s.

Subscribe to the Gen X Pittsburgh podcast.

So we are back in with Jen Wertz here on the Gen X Pittsburgh Podcast.

How else do musicians fight AI right now?

What else can they do?

Well, the artificial intelligence that is just happening so fast and part of the Living Wage for Musicians Act does not compensate non-human artists.

Think about that sentence.

Yeah, it's so crazy.

But yeah, so we wouldn't you know, I mean, the best way to fight artificial intelligence music is I mean, I don't I'm not a hard liner on the AI.

I'll use it to search something on my Google, but I'm not going to an AI therapist.

I'm not creating art with it I'm not creating music with it.

Do not consume it.

Do not consume it.

It's a slippery slope The music industry is like this.

And this AI in our whole society system is a slippery slope.

Next thing you know, it's going to be so.

Just do not consent.

I do not comply.

I do not consent to this.

I don't take part in it.

I don't consume it.

Yeah.

And that is really what we talked about.

The consensus reality.

If you consent to it, just don't consent.

That's my advice about that.

Yeah yeah yeah.

Thank you.

So I know you als wanted to kind of straighten out a couple of things real quick.

Yeah.

So just the main thing is I a a former member of Rusted Root.

They are still at three members as a band.

They do not perform any longer, but I'm no longer a part of them.

And it's been quite a while.

So I wanted to clarify that.

And then also when it comes to the PUMA Pittsburgh United Musicians Alliance, it is an advocacy group an the reason that I am an advocate and I stand to be both a stakeholder and an advocate and any legislation, because I do benefit from the big label system.

Still, my band does have a hit song from the old label days.

We actually regenerate income from that.

We get commercials, movies, we get all kinds of sync licensing and usages o social media, which is I mean, we're super grateful for it and it's a wonderful thing.

But when you advocate you're coming up from that position and saying, I had the benefit of this, this benefit is no longer available to these kids.

Can we help these kids?

We weren't like rock and roll bands, man.

We want like, people leaving the garage and going out on tour and having that experience, going out to a club like Club Cafe, a small venue, support your small venues.

That's a way to support musicians.

So anyway, I just wanted to make sure that people understand that I'm also a stakeholder as well as.

Sure, sure.

Yeah.

What advice would you give?

1992 Jenn Wertz.

Oh my God.

Wow.

Believe people the first time they show you who they are in business, in relationships, in politics.

And I would also tell her it ain't that serious.

Yeah, it aint that serious.

Right.

So real quick, I want to talk about your son Gibson.

Oh, yeah.

Gibson.

Oh my gosh Yeah.

He's taken after his mom.

Yes.

And his dad.

And his dad.

Yes yes, yes.

So Gibson is 21 and he has a band called Poster Child.

He's a very gifted singer songwriter.

Yeah, he's very tall.

He's very tall.

And he's also a great frontman, which is kind of.

And he is one of those people that is called.

Yeah, he's called to make music.

He could do a lot of stuff, but he can't not do that.

Yeah.

And I've been there I've been there with painting.

I've been there with music.

I've been there with healing people and doing this consciousness work, I, I can't not do it.

And that means it's a calling.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, you know he is part of PUMA Pittsburgh United Musicians Alliance.

He is one of the he asked me if he could take part in it with us.

And so it's myself, Jeff Taylor, Andre Costello, Gibson Musisko, and Shane McLaughlin make up PUMA.

And and we go in and talk to we'll talk to Democrats or Republicans.

We'll talk to anybody.

We will talk to anybody willing to listen about this.

Great.

Well Jenn, we're going to have a little fun.

Fun.

Okay.

Gosh.

I'm nervous.

Don't be nervous.

It's not that hard, I promise.

We're just going to ask you some questions and you just have to answer them.

Okay.

Rapid fire.

Rapid fire rewind.

Im only 50 so I just like, dont know, I might not remember everything.

But you'll remember Okay.

Let's see.

Okay, let me fix my hair.

Iron City, Iron City or Rolling Rock?

Iron.

Okay.

Yeah.

You migh be a little biased in this one.

Your favorite alternative band?

Well, right now it's Poster Child.

Okay, I love it.

But Spoon.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Three Rivers or Heinz Field?

Three rivers or Heinz Field?

Three Rivers.

Okay.

Yeah.

Heinz Field is really nice, but I have emotional Acrisure Stadium wasn't even on the list.

So.

That's right.

I have positive memories connected to Heinz Field.

Yeah.

Okay.

What about your favorite Gen-X movie?

I like Reality Bites.

All right.

Yeah, that was a good one, right?

It, like, feels like a comfy couch watching them.

Exactly.

With a Big Gulp.

Yeah.

Turner's or Schneider's?

Oh, gosh.

That stuff would kill me.

I would have to say, Turner's.

Yeah Just because it's more familiar.

Yeah.

What about your favorite Saturday morning cartoon?

Did you have one?

Yes.

Tom and Jerry.

Tom and Jerry.

But there was one specific To and Jerry episode called Slang.

Do you remember?

No.

Anybody remember?

Go look for it on YouTube.

It's the greatest.

And they take all the slang, and they act it out and its super funny.

And I remember when I was a kid, I thought it was the smartest, coolest [bleep] ever.

I love it.

Check it out.

Yeah, well.

Well, I bet you their numbers are going to go up, right?

Okay.

Donzis and Chaunceys or Rosebud and Metropol?

Oh, Rosebud and Metropol.

Of course.

Yeah.

What was your first concert?

My first concert was the Stray Cats.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

Yeah, they were good.

Yeah, yeah.

It was like the crowd was mixed, like rockabilly punkers and like, and like a real punk punkers.

Yeah.

And it was at the Stanley Theater.

I was 13.

Yeah.

And they were jumping, and I was in the balcony and the balcony was going like.

Right.

And I was like, oh my God.

But the whole place was jumping.

That was only the first time I saw them.

They were fantastic.

Yeah.

I mean they still are.

Right.

I saw Brian Setzer solo when he was doing his swing stuff several times.

Very good.

Yeah.

Very good.

I've seen him as well.

And it was the same way.

It was punk.

It was rockabilly and swing.

So you had this really eclectic crowd of people.

Yeah.

He's outstanding.

Yeah.

Outstanding player.

Okay, Oakland Beehive or Southside Beehive?

Southside.

Of course No, there's no Oakland Beehive.

Like I know we never went there.

I mean, I don't even really know the secrets of that place, although I, we had a couple of good shows there, Scott.

Remember that?

And we had a couple really good shows.

Now Valerie tells me this isn't a girl's question, but I'm going to say this.

It is, right.

Atari or Nintendo?

Yeah, I mean Atari.

I mean, I'm talking Pong.

Right, right.

Frogger and Pong is as far as I go.

Right.

Even now, Gibson will be like, look at this.

And I just go, no, come on, I'm going to have a seizure.

I can't do it.

Well, Jen, we appreciate you coming tonight.

I've learned so much about you and about music in general.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

This is great.

Thank you so much.

And thank you for joining us here on The Gen X Pittsburgh Podcast.

See you next week.

The Gen X Pittsburgh Podcast hosts are David Rullo and Valerie Christofel.

Executive producer, David Rullo.

Producer graphic designer Kim Rullo.

Producer, Valerie Christofel.

Video production and editor, Brent Isaac.

Music by Neostem.